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 Post subject: Nubie questions
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:06 pm
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Location: Santa Clara, California
We just bought two new Sports, I know they aren't the fastest but transport and storage are concerns ... which brings me to a couple of questions:

We need to hang these from the garage ceiling with hoists. I would like to use straps through the drive slot and scupper holes to keep things secure and spread the stress but reading suggests this might not be good. The front strap would go through the drive slot then loop around the hull. The rear strap would go in one scupper and back through the other. Is this OK or would it be better to wrap straps around the outside? I would think an outside wrap would put a lot of squeeze on the hulls?

The dealer sold us Yakima J bars for car transport but the square sides of the Sport hulls seem to focus a lot of stress on contact points. The hulls don't drop down far enough to sit on the bottom of the J and wedge between the bars. I am especially concerned as we expect to take them with us RV traveling and they could be on the racks for a long time. I have thought of adding foam to the bottom of the J brackets to bring them into contact with the hulls. Any experience with this or suggestions?

On one of the boats the sail mast socket seems to be glued to the inside keel for support. On the other hull it is not and it wiggles a bit, although I can't pass a string between the socket and keel. I am concerned that if there is not a solid attachment to the keel, torque from the sail will cause the mast socket to fail or break the upper hull attachment. Is there an attachment at the keel that is not visible? Should this be glued? How?


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 Post subject: Re: Nubie questions
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:55 am 
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These would work for you in the garage:
Image
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0043022018703a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Products&QueryText=kayak&sort=all&Go.y=0&_D%3AhasJS=+&Nty=1&hasJS=true&No=108&Ns=SEL_LOW_PRICE|0&N=0&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&Go.x=0&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1

As for transporting, we have an Outback and Revolution and after trying several types of racks fell back on just hoisting them upside down on crossbars and tying them down. It turned out to be the quickest way to get them on the car. I got some pipe insulation from a big box home improvement store and cut them to fit the bars.


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 Post subject: Re: Nubie questions
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:45 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2387
Location: Escondido
Straps (around the outside) and pulleys works well for me. So does a platform (2 x 2) and rope system -- both seen here. You can make your own system or buy one. Any storage or transport that rests the boat inverted on its cockpit rails is good.
Image

Your mast receiver threads in at the top and sleeves over a hump in the bottom of the hull. If it moves a little bit at the base, no problem at all.
ImageImage
8)


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 Post subject: Re: Nubie questions
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:06 pm
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Location: Santa Clara, California
Thanks for the info and photo on the mast base, that clears it up. Thanks also for the pix on the hoists, I think I can make one of those work. Our cars, however are too narrow for two yaks side by side so I will somehow have to make the J bars fit better.

On a related note, we broke a bow strap traveling today because I took a shortcut hooking it to the Hobie T handle and it came loose. I learn the hard way.

I'm kind of uncomfortable anyway hooking the straps to the T handle. Is that little rope on the Hobie handle really strong enough? For that matter, are the bow and stern eyes really strong enough? They seem to be just two wood screws into plastic. Is there a more secure way to attach bow and stern lines?


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 Post subject: Re: Nubie questions
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:53 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
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Location: Escondido
The bow and stern padeyes are well anchored. They screw into embedded brass inserts cast into the hull. I would suggest you tie a loop of small diameter line through the padeyes for a transport attachments. I use "550" parachute cord (550 lb. test) -- small diameter (1/8" +/-), inexpensive and strong. I also use it as a permanent bow line and for various other small tasks. You can get it on e-bay or your local military surplus store. The lift handles are best used for lifting only IMO.

Keep in mind you can install custom padeyes (or other hardware) for any purpose. Using Stainless steel, you would through-bolt and use flat washers (to distribute the load) and lock nuts. Just be sure you can reach the desired location from the inside!

Fitting the boats side by side is a function of rack width, not car width. Of course, it might look funny having 76" bars sticking out and they could possibly pose a safety hazard. But then, you can take a wide bar and cut it down for a custom fit. For instance, two 30" wide Sports = about 60" -- that shouldn't be too much of an overhang. Bars are available in assorted widths, are easily trimmed, and with most mounting systems, are fully interchangeable. I'm sure you'll work it out. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Nubie questions
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:51 pm 
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I've got 66" racks on my car. I am packing up the kayaks tonight, I'll post a pic.


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 Post subject: Re: Nubie questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:24 am
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Location: Lund/Flyinge - Skaane - Sweden
Roadrunner wrote:
The bow and stern padeyes are well anchored. They screw into embedded brass inserts cast into the hull. I would suggest you tie a loop of small diameter line through the padeyes for a transport attachments.
As much as i hate to question your wisdom :cry: , i feel i have to in this matter. The bow and stern-eyes are just metal-ones fastened with selfcutting screws directly into the hull. I would not use these for anything that short lifts and dragging the yak mounted to a cart.

I would love to be made wrong (read: wiser), though :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Nubie questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:06 pm
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Location: Santa Clara, California
I'll be interested to see a response to Gio's post. Matt, were these screws something that was changed perhaps?

I found some small, really strong (700#) climbing line to make loops as Roadrunner suggested. I'm puzzling over how to tie the loops so I can be sure the knots won't come untied, any suggestions?

I think I'm stuck with the J bars. Laying the boats side by side the math shows that even with the narrow(?) Sports, the bars would need to be a few inches wider than the car body and would stick out about a foot on each side at the roofline. This seems dangerous. Also, If I remember right from a ticket I got many years ago, they aren't allowed to stick out past the car body on the left at all. This means they would have to be mounted off center. Even more dangerous.


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 Post subject: Re: Nubie questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8898
Location: Oceanside, California
Gio is correct that the bow and stern handles are only designed for "short" lifts... not long term hanging / storage use. This was noted by roadrunner as well.

roadrunner wrote:
The lift handles are best used for lifting only IMO.


The screws are threaded into brass as noted by roadrunner. They are well anchored / molded in to the hull. You can use them for support lines when car topping, but not where they would be heavily loaded over long periods. Any hardware on the boat is the same. Over time, plastic creeps and flows from long periods of loading. Bow handle fittings, and other hardware attachments, are prone to failure if loaded over long periods. This is noted in the manual.

Just to be clear... DO NOT HANG A KAYAK FROM THE BOW AND STERN HANDLES!

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 Post subject: Re: Nubie questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
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Location: Escondido
It's easy to spot your brass inserts by simply looking under the padeyes. The one shown here (from our Oasis -- almost twice the weight of your Sports) also doubles as an attachment point for the mainsheet block, used to enhance sail handling.
Image

Perhaps Gio was referring to a non-factory installed padeye or a different manufacturer? Not noticed by most users, Hobie has been using marine grade brass inserts for critical fasteners for years. Brass inserts are also used for rudder mounts and to reinforce certain high stress areas.

I'm no expert in knots, but have had great luck with the popular bowline for general boating purposes. Here's a description and how-to learn to tie it:
http://www.apparentwind.com/knots/bowline/

Once you make your loops you can just leave them in place permanently -- they can come in handy for other purposes. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Nubie questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2222
Location: Maui, Hawaii
I use the bowline often here too. When I want it to be permanent, I wire-tie the bitter end. The rope will break before that knot will let loose!

Another knot I use a lot is the overhand loop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhand_loop

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http://KayakingBob.com - - - - - Hobie Island Sailing since 2006 - - - - - 2011 & 2012 Hobie AIs and a 2012 TI


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 Post subject: Re: Nubie questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:24 am
Posts: 23
Location: Lund/Flyinge - Skaane - Sweden
I stand partially corrected. Thanks :D


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 Post subject: Re: Nubie questions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:17 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Homosassa, Florida
Splice the loops. Any braided line with a inter core can be spliced. Knots weaken the line up to 50%


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 Post subject: Re: Nubie questions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:43 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:06 pm
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Location: Santa Clara, California
Very impressive braiding Ranger908!

I'm familiar with the bowline and the overhand loop but what is needed is not an eye but a round loop about 3" diameter. Any suggestions on securely making such?

Those knots could be used but are pretty clunky for a small loop. And a bowline, such a wonderful knot for so many applications, might be insecure with both ends of the line so short and possibly flogging from the wind. The neatest seems to be a square knot but I don't trust it without epoxying the knot or some such.


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 Post subject: Re: Nubie questions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:17 pm
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Location: Homosassa, Florida
I can think or four quick options. Buy a 3 inch SS ring from a sailing store, remove the eyelet and put it on. Use your square knot, pull it real tight, then coach whip or sew the ends. Make make a cricle loop out of braided line by removing the enter core and braiding it back into itself and sewing to prevent slipping. Buy a 1/2 inch small dog collar with a strong snap or buckle.


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