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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:04 pm 
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Location: Tallahassee, FL
Have a look willya at all the new Hobie yaks, including some new Mirage Drive rigs. Especially impressive to me is the new Adventure touring model. A full 16 feet long, some 4 feet longer than the Outback, yet only 3 lbs. heavier! How did the Hobie engineers manage that feat?

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Here is the Product page-check them out, including a new tandem rig called the Outfitter that comes in at only 62 lbs. Also a newly re-designed Mirage drive, a new fold-up rudder, both port and starboard built-in handles, a new dagger (center) board for sailing on the Adventure, and the list goes on.

http://www.hobiecat.com/kayaking/index.html

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Last edited by Apalach on Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: New Products
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:01 pm 
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Apalach, you keep on top of things, thanks for the heads up.

The Mirage Adventure is a step in the right direction of what I've been asking for - longer and narrower. Looks like I'll have to find a place to Demo one.

The Adventure looks designed on the framework of the MirageClassic, which sits real low, so when the first wave comes along, it breaks over the side and you get soaked. That is why I bought the Outback - I stayed high and dry.

The 12' Outback had a hull speed of about 5.4 mph, and the Adventure has a hull speed of about 6.2 mph - that is almost one mile an hour improvement in speed. Will the legs generate that increase in speed with no extra effort, or will the legs have to be kicking at a much higher cadence making the increase in speed harder to achieve? While speed is good, if it comes at the price of stability, it may not be good. Know what I mean? That is probably by the Adventure sits low in the water - better stability for a narrower kayak.

Why all the hype about speed? Consider a 10 mile crossing of a bay or lake. Say, averaging 3.4 mph in the Outback and 4.4 mph in the Adventure. What this boils down to is time, a savings about 1.5 hours, narrowing down a 6 hour trip into about a 4.5 hour trip.

I gotta try out the Adventure. Thanks Apalach!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:46 pm 
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Location: 315 N. Hwy 79 Panama City Beach, FL 32413 850-235-2281
Where did you get those hull speeds from? I believe I get more than 5.4, then again I have been wrong before!



Thanks,
Brad Stephens
www.sunjammers.com
Hobie Division 15 Chairman
Authorized Hobie/Vanguard/Hunter Dealer
brad@sunjammers.com
850-235-2281
Panama City Beach, FL


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 Post subject: Hull Speed
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:08 am 
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sunjammers wrote:
Where did you get those hull speeds from? I believe I get more than 5.4, then again I have been wrong before!

http://www.recumbents.com/WISIL/hpb/hpbcalculator.asp

This is just a simple calculator - I'm sure there are other hull-speed calculators that take into account more factors such as length to width ratio, water surface area, and hull material. I was just using it for comparison.


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 Post subject: Regatta
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:28 am 
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sunjammers wrote:
Hobie Division 15 Chairman
Authorized Hobie/Vanguard/Hunter Dealer
brad@sunjammers.com
850-235-2281
Panama City Beach, FL
This may be a bit off topic, but do you ever anticipate there being a division for the Hobie Mirage Sailboats in any of your area Regattas? The Outback is definately not a speedster sailboat, but then again, they should not be competing against the Hobie 16, rather, other Outbacks, right?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:02 pm 
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Location: Northern Neck, VA
I don't remember the exact formula for hull speed of a displacement type hull but it is a square root function of length times some constant. Now if you get the Adventure to reduce wetted area as the speed goes up perhaps we can plane. 8)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:38 pm 
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Rnykster,
Actually, I think the new Adventure is designed more along the lines of the Quest, with the addition of the Mirage drive capability. I had often thought that the Quest might be the perfect yak if it had the Mirage drive. Although I had heard that Hobie was working on some new, speedier models, I didn't know they were thinking along the same lines.

Lots of interest in the Adventure--can't wait to see if my local dealer will be getting one in soon. Even with the heavy duty price, it might be some serious competition for the WS rides, along with some of the other popular long-footprint models. Although there are a lot of "serious" kayakers out there who tend to bash the Mirage Drive, I think some of them will come around when they get a gander at the performance of the Adventure, either with or without the Mirage drive...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:49 pm 
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Location: Out There
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I had often thought that the Quest might be the perfect yak if it had the Mirage drive.

That's an interesting idea. The Quest is a very stable kayak, especially in the open ocean. It is pretty fast and has loads of storage space. Being able to store 7' fishing rods inside the hull(through the forward hatch) is a big plus, especially if you go through the surf. I don't know if you could do that with a Mirage Drive. I don't really have a problem with water coming over the nose of the Quest, hopefully the Adventure won't have that problem either.
I hope I can test out the Adventure soon. For ocean kayaking, longer is generally better. The farther out you go, the smaller your boat gets. I'm all for speed. You can always slow down if you're going too fast.


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 Post subject: Demos
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:20 pm 
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ronbo613 wrote:
I don't really have a problem with water coming over the nose of the Quest, hopefully the Adventure won't have that problem either.
Hope you are right. Now, if we can just find one of those things to demo...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:21 am 
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valfitzandrew wrote:
I don't remember the exact formula for hull speed of a displacement type hull but it is a square root function of length times some constant. Now if you get the Adventure to reduce wetted area as the speed goes up perhaps we can plane. 8)


I used to know that formula by heart just because it's fun to know odd little things like that - you know for Jeopardy or whatever :lol:

The concept behind the formula is that a displacement hull gets "trapped" in the trough of the wave that it creates around itself. It can't make it "over" the bow wave and the stern wave "pulls" the boat back. Therefore, if your hull is longer, your "trough" is longer resulting in more speed. 8)

It is different for planing hulls. With a planing or stepped hull more horsepower generally = more speed.

I'm not sure how all this fits into the formula that Rnykster posted the link to , but it's a fun link. thanks "R"

I hope you guys don't mind me dropping in from the sailing forum but I have been thinking of getting a real kayak for myself and my handicapped son who LOVES paddling around in a Coleman inflatable yak that I bought him last year. I am learning a lot here - keep posting- THANKS

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The fact that this windy world is largely covered in water obviously means that man was meant to sail.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:50 am 
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Val,
Welcome aboard. I've seen your posts over on KFS. Lots of good info and folks on this site also.

Wider,
Good to see you over here too. Check out the new Outfitter tandem--shorter and less weight than the regular tandem. Might be something you would like to consider for you and your son. Sailing the older tandem, however, is difficult with two since the mast step is located beneath the forward seat.

Don't know about the Outfitter, but the Hobie figure shows the mast position just at, or slightly behind the forward seat. However, that could mean that it is under the seat also. Maybe someone from Hobie can chime in on this. It is still possible to sail the old tandem with two, so long as the forward passenger is a child, or at least smaller in stature, so they can scrunch up in the cockpit forward of the mast.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:27 pm 
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Location: Northern Neck, VA
Apalach,
I have been reading with interest the posts on site KFS and FLYC. You mostly seem to have the head screwed on with RH threads. This is a good place also. I do appreciate Miller monotoring the KFS site and answereing questions and providing some solutions. More manufacturors should do same.
Long and nsrrow with lots of hp got destroyers going 40kts (Italian and Jap). Ours were a bit slower. The nuc carriers go upward of 40kts though with the advent of the steam catapult they can launch some AC at anchor. Th PT boat of WWII fame was a just under 40kt boat with a planing hull and 3 Packart Mustang Engines. Never figured out the hp/weight ratio.
Any way big paddles (foot/leg powered), a long relatively narrow boat means speed w/o the aero downside of hand paddles.
God I'm confused. All this technology. I just want the Adventure.
Thought about the tandum. Realized that wife would only be an occassional companin on the water and if she liked my yak I'll buy her one of her very own.
Note. the FLYC people are padlers not pedalers. Not much room for change there, however they are VERY interested in fishing and that's what it's some about. Different strokes for different folks.
Now, where is the spell checker and I'll get off before the thunder storms lightning strikes my puter.
:)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:54 pm 
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Hey Val,
I hear ya! If I didn't already have an Outback, I sure would be looking hard at an Adventure myself. My guess is that it will soon be one of Hobie's best-selling yaks, even with the relatively steep price tag.

I went the same direction with regard to my wife. I thought about a tandem, but knew from past experience (with the TV remote, if nothing else!), that no matter where I wanted to go, she would probably want to go in a different direction! So I ended up getting her a Sport. We hope to do some river trouring trips in the not too distant future, after doing some trips together with a rental earlier for her. I have to confess that there is nothing more relaxing for me than being in a yak and letting a slow-moving river just carry me down to the coast, fishing or no.
Best,
Dick

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:27 pm 
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Location: Northern Neck, VA
Scratch YAK. If promoted properly = Boat. My gal was a WW yaker in her youth. Can't paddle any more due to thumb joint problems. Is currently excited by the SCA (Society for Creative Anacrinisims). She is at the Pennsic Wars as we write. All said and done there is nothing wrong with her legs so perhaps there is a Sport in her future.

By the bye. I think I've/w've been invited to the Keys for an early Jan event. How do a transport a 16 ft yak on a F-350 pulling a 5th wheel trailer. Pur the yak inside? Or is there another way? :P

Florida in Jan beats VA. But, the cost of diesel may keep this from happening. :cry:

I'll just stay home and pedal fish for whatever is biting. My creek has 3-5 ft carp in Juns. Locals say they bite. Its a throw away catch for them. Me too except it ought to be fun to latch onto one. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:03 pm 
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widerisbetter wrote:
valfitzandrew wrote:
... I have been thinking of getting a real kayak for myself and my handicapped son who LOVES paddling around in a Coleman inflatable yak that I bought him last year. I am learning a lot here - keep posting- THANKS
What real kayak are you interested in? I recommend an Outback.


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