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 Post subject: Adventurer Rudder
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:49 am
Posts: 43
Location: Canberra, Australia
Hi all...first time here for me...great forum. After 2 years in my Outback I upgraded to an Adventurer today and spent 6 hours on the water testing it out. I love it...stable and fast...just what I was after as i do alot of overnight touring. A couple of questions after my first daythat others may be able to help with:

1. The rudder will not retract onto the deck when it is locked into the groove holding the rudder to the steering assembly :roll: . It only needs a small knock out of the groove to retract but on the water this is just about impossible. I note that the assembly is factory fitted and presumably tested so is the way it is or is there some adjustment I should make to be able to raise the raider at will.

2. I got a very wet ass first time out :oops: - it was windy with small waves but nothing much. Should the scuppers under the seat be left open? (The wet ass was quite fine though because it was stinking hot down here today - Australia)

3. I also have a Hobie sail from my Outback that I hope to try out tomorrow...anything special I need to know for the Adventurer? Is the dagger board available commercially yet?

Thanks for your help. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:02 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 44
Location: San Antonio, TX
Booligal-I too have a difficult time raising the rudder on my Adventure once it is down. It takes way too much effort to raise and stow it when I am on the water. This weekend I plan on doing some investigating. On the other hand, the rudder stays right where I put it with no wander. Completely hands off until I want/need to make a change. This goes for either pedal or paddle power.
As for the wet butt, I have had my Adventure out twice now and have not experienced any water in the seat. The conditions were a windy 1 foot chop on a step dammed river. In fact, the only water is that which was in the drive well. With normal wave action it has been a very dry ride. I would think though that if you took waves or splashing over the side, or if the waves were large enough to break over the bow, yes, it would be wet and the water would get trapped in the seat because of its design. In that case, yes, I would remove the scupper plugs so the water could drain. This might also have something to do with the Adventure being only 27.5 inches wide as opposed to the width of the Outback. Those large side bolsters with the trays in them on the Outback may make a more effective barrier to water getting in the seat area from the side. Since you have mentioned it though, I have added the wet butt item to my watch list for reference.
I cannot comment on the sail issue. I have one too plus I have the dagger board on order. I will receive it as soon as it is available. Since I have zero experience sailing, I am looking forward to learning (and getting quite wet while doing so). Temps here in southcentral Texas are in the mid sixties to low seventies so the sailing lessons will have to wait until spring. kyt


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:57 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:22 pm
Posts: 19
Location: L.I. NY
Booligal, I also have the same problem while on the water with the rudder not wanting to retract. In the spring I will investigate further on a fix.

With the scuppers open I will get a little of the wet butt thing, with me at 225# it is a pretty dry ride overall. My P15 gets a lot more water in the seat and footwells than the BigA.

No sailing yet I will buy mine in the spring as well a the larger flippers.

Paul


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:49 am
Posts: 43
Location: Canberra, Australia
A response from Hobie would be most appreciated given that this rudder issue seems to be a common (well 3 of us anyway) problem with the Adventurer...if in fact it is a problem or thats how its supposed to be!!

Thanks in anticipation.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:41 am 
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Hobie Tech / Moderator

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 3:16 pm
Posts: 301
Location: San Diego
In my experience the rudders are a bit sticky to raise and lower when they are new but once the break in they work fine. One thing I found when the boat is new is to crank the rudder all the way to the left and then raise the rudder, for some reason that take some of the pressure off and makes the rudder go up much easier.

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Greg Thomas
Hobie Factory Team


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 Post subject: Twist-n-Stow
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:34 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9025
Location: Oceanside, California
This is the new Twist-n-Stow rudder system.

These do take some effort. The system has a bungee in the up control line. The bungee stretches and then flips the rudder up. You may feel like you are going to break something, but this is a safety to prevent problems if you beach without raising the rudder. The larger rudder is a bit harder than the standard one, but we have been using them for quite some time without problem.

Our engineers use the product and will review again to see if there are ways to make it even easier.

As Greg noted... steer while raising. Wiggle a little to release from the hold down indent. Possibly loosen the bolt that passes through the drum.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:25 am 
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Hobie Team Member

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:39 pm
Posts: 84
Location: San Diego, CA
I was talking to a couple of people at Hobie about this a few weeks ago. I noticed this on my Big A, too. The way I raise it on the water is to steer all the way left and then push the lever just to the point it feels like it could snap something, then I hold pressure on it. For whatever reason, the bungee or just force over time, the rudder starts to give slowly then sort of "whomps" into place. I likened it to pulling nightcrawlers out of their holes as a kid, slow and stead pressure and eventually they give in to their fates. :D

-Drew Clark
Hobie Kayaks Factory Team


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:49 am
Posts: 43
Location: Canberra, Australia
Thanks for your input guys - after a couple of hours and six pack or two out in my garage this afternoon I tried Drews method but no good. I have however worked out a method to raise it that seems to work (well in the garage anyway). I have found that if you turn the rudder full right, move the rudder lifter handle to the point where it is under full tension and then quickly turn the rudder left it throws itself out of the groove and goes onto the deck with an almighty "whomp" to quote Drew. Not ideal but seems to work!!

I will try it out on the water tomorrow and hopefully it will work - if not back to the garage with another six pack or two!! :lol:


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 Post subject: Rudder action
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:46 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
They really don't like to work when dry and on land... once wet (lubricated) and the rudder weight is less due to displacement in the water... should work much better.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:49 am
Posts: 43
Location: Canberra, Australia
Ok I have tried it out on the water and still no good. The resistance from the water when throwing the rudder from right to left means I cant get enough "throw" to dislodge the rudder from its groove to raise it onto the deck. back to the drawing board!!

I CANT HELP THINKING ITS OVER TO THE ENGINEERS ON THIS ONE AND HOPEFULLY hOBIE WILL RETROFIT WHATEVER SOLUTION THEY COME UP WITH EVEN IN FAR FLUNG PLACES LIKE aUSTRALIA - oops sorry :oops: , didnt mean to ''yell" ...caps lock.

Regards
Mark


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:49 am
Posts: 43
Location: Canberra, Australia
The ongoing saga...was out on the water this morning and thought I would try 1 more time to lift the rudder. Much to my surprise it worked after a bit of fiddling with the rudder lifter and speering levers...at that point I was very happy :lol:

I then went to return the rudder to the water and the steering lever got stuck in a hard right poisition and I could neither lift or turn the rudder. You can imagine how I felt at this point :evil:

After about an hour struggling to get back to shore under paddle with the rudder stuck (rather than just going in circles under peddle) I went straight to my Hobie dealer and dropped the thing off for fixing. I hope they get it right.

Stay tuned for the next exciting episode!!! :cry:


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 Post subject: Rudder stuck?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
That's a new one. I will forward to the engineers for comment.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:49 am
Posts: 43
Location: Canberra, Australia
Despite the fear of being labelled the biggest whinger :oops: in the forum heres the results of the Adventures return to the dealer:

1. the issue of the rudder steering mechanism getting stuck full right was easily fixed though not a permanent fix I fear - even at the dealer he managed to get it stuck again after releasing it the first time. Under the steering lever there is a spreader for the left and right cables. When on full right the spreader stops against a lug moulded into the hull however the spreader seems to have a tendency to slip over the lug and when this happens it is stuck on full right (I have some pictures to show people but cant work out how to post them here). It is easily fixed by putting your hand through the center port hole and moving the spreader back over the lug. A permanent fix I imagine would be a longer lug to stop the spreader jumping it.

2. the issue of the rudder not retracting onto the deck is still a problem. Essentially the dealer didnt know anything about the mechanism (as its factory fitted and adjusted) so I was loath to let them fiddle with it - a case of the blind leading the blind! We tried out another new Adventure they just got in and it suffered from the same problem. Not sure where I go with this one now apart from waiting to see what the Hobie engineers have to say.

Sorry to be a pain I just want it to all working right!! :?

Cheers
Mark


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 Post subject: Steering
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:56 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
I will forward to our engineers today. You can send us pictures direct at info@hobiecat.com

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
News from Hobie Cat engineers.

Steering lock in right turn...

Problem: Steering handle "crank" inside hull bypasses a stop and can get hung up.

Solution: A slight bend in the crank (stainless steel plate) can make it correctly contact the stop. This can be done by hand, in the field. All boats on our assembly line were reviewed and worked correctly. The assembly line has been reminded to check this adjustment.


Rudder does not retract easily...

Problem: This is both an adjustment and a design issue. Some rudders do not work correctly. There is a bungee in the up control line system that was intended to prevent damage if a user were to force the rudder down by hand rather than using the control handle. The bungee may over-stretch and not cause the rudder to release from the down position correctly. The rudder control lines may have been over tensioned. The drum system may not be properly adjusted.

Solution: The complete and official solution is in process. Hobie Cat will be providing a definitive "fix" in a short period of time. In the meantime, some adjustments are possible to correct the problem.

1- Replace the bungee in the up control line with a length of spectra line.
2- Loosen and adjust the control lines.
3- Lubricate the drum fittings and the line exit points in the hull.
4- Adjust the drum bolt to prevent wobble and binding.

These changes make the system work consistantly.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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