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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:34 am 
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Location: Hawaii, Big Island
Old timers will remember all the discussions on KFS. where the Revolution was born both idea, and even name wise. Ancient ones may have been around when Hobie was sold on it's predecessor the Adventure. truly a magnificent yak, but currently pushed close to it's limits even with the addition of the Island concept..

The development direction from the Adventure to the Revolution to the Angler, and modifications to the Outback have been market driven by fresh water. (Ok I'll concede inshore coastal waters also.)

But what about the guys down under doing all the long distance exploring. Or the Florida types like Chekika, hard nut sailor's like Kayaking Bob, and Pupule (crazy) Kelly Harrison sailing from the Big Island to Maui?

And fishing. again down under, Texas oil well trips and Hawaii types are going after Pelagics. Big fish on long trips. They are thus defining a new market direction for the Adventure/Adventure Island which is long overdue for a major upgrade. Indeed a new model for those going in new directions.

Some may remember my letter to Doug Skidmore about a better Adventure. A yak I call the Pelagic. :

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5074&p=22934&hilit=pelagic#p22934

Well it's been a few years . Given the posts on explorations and ocean fishing pushing the AI limits I believe it's time to reopen this subject. But please like my last post in Doug's letter thread, comment on the ocean aspects of fishing and hold the bass stuff. You already have new yaks for your market.

I started with the idea of using the Adventure and bumping it a bit length wise to 16''6''. Probably should have tried for 17' to get a tad more capacity as I also narrowed it an inch to 26' beam to try for more speed. Intent was to also use AI sailing fittings to avoid protype design and mfg costs.

Here are some overview shots of my S&G effort.:

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I'll start by showing what I have built incorporating some of the ideas such as no tankwell, bigger hatches, etc.

1. I start out with no tankwell, but internal storage for fish and expedition supplies aft. By so doing the CG is lowered enhancing stability. Aft scuppers are eliminated. Chopped up small spaces in the current AI are eliminated. An internal fish bag enables fish to be kept with out the meat getting fried. When your doing an open ocean trip of 14-24 + miles you need a cooling space. A big space .

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At least six feet for ahi, ono (wahoo), and wide enough to accommodate the head of a large bull mahi.

It could be made even longer and accommodate a built in bait tank with a removable rear wall that makes the fish storage longer when needed. The bag BTW can easily handle a small internal net pocket for frozen bait.

Here's what I have for the moment.


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Note also for exploration the existing flat hatch could be replaced with one that has a "bubble" to accommodate a taller load

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2. Bigger fwd hatch. I have a tendency to go in harm's way. I've given up trying to repair the Mirage drive at sea unless it's absolutely flat and no current or wind. So I currently keep a spare regular drive in the front AI hatch. Yet even then one pedal has to be removed. It takes me 120 seconds to reattach this pedal in my garage. My first attempt at sea was 5+ minutes trying to get the nut on the bolt. Anyway you can see me wanting a space long enough to accommodate a complete assembled spare Turbo drive. There are other guys that carry one also, like KayakBob when he has a group of 3-4 boats or is sailing alone.

And you need a hatch so no gyrations are required to insert the drive.

Wahla (maybe too big?- but I didn't want to be short on a prototype.):

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Here I just tossed in a cart, hammock,summer sleeping bag and a bottle of H20 just to show what can be done. Note I'm not using the bow section which was walled off to provide floatation.

Again I've used a hinge on one end. I think something better could be done here. Removable hinge? Rough water strap to assist bungee cord?

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3. Torpedo Tube rod storage. On KFS the idea of torpedo tubes was raised for rod storage, kage (short kill spear), gaff, etc. This was before the Angler concept BION. Anyway here's what I ended up with. Square ones that accommodate two-three rods each. Not pictured are holders on the underside of the top deck of the tubes for knife, pliers, etc.

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I'd like to see the Angler concept carried forward to the Pelagic as a means of safeguarding gear going through surf, and experiencing heavy weather.

When fighting big fish the tubes also let you store your extra rods down so they don't interfere with the fish if it does a speed circle routine.

4. Bailer access port. Should be built in so you don't have to use the center hatch.. Guys that have pumped in heavy seas will know what I mean. Here's an addition to my AI.

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5. More flexible seating.

I wanted a seat that could be lowered or raised. Here's one that does that mounted on a removable bracket. Without it your in straight yak mode for a lower body CG and increased stability.

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With sailing ama stability add the bracket in with a seat that in this case also adds 3" and I have a very comfy sailing seat. Folding the back down even raises me a couple of more inches for sailing. Seat back up position it acts as a big fish fighting chair. It rotates 360! Got get a gimbal on it!

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Only problem is I have to do it on the beach, committing to an Island mode prior to launch. I'm sure Hobie engineers can come up with something better, yet keeps the functions of the prototype seat design.

6. The quick viewer will note the use of the old style hatch. It was a freebie from a condemned leaker. Would rather have used the Angler square one.

More later on rudder size, no more leaking rudder lines, and several other features guys have asked for. Add yours to the list.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:48 am 
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
It's coming along nice Dan. Nice to see it, after all your work.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:10 am 
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Location: Kailua 96734
:shock: Can you say "Up periscope"?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:12 pm
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Location: Hilo, Hawaii
AD,

Prototype looks to be comming along. What a way to visualize a kayak fisherman's wishlist.

shaka (Hang Loose),

c2y


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:04 pm
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Location: Hawaii, Big Island
Thanks guys. Here are some more points:

7. Leaking rudder lines.

Why do Hobie engineers insist on terminating rudder lines INSIDE the hull. Just lead them out again . The principal has been used in OC-1 and surf ski's for years.

In the rear:

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Out at steering mechanism. No water inside the hull, it's just moved through the control line tubes.:

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Note on mine the steering mechanism (an old rudder housing) could be protected by a non water tight plate or cover. I'm sure Hobie can do better then me to get the control leads out of the hull to some steering lever.


8. Like others on the Hobie forum I am not happy with the size of the Hobie rudder, and the ability to hold fast pointing up in a strong wind.

I went to the Tribeweb site (Florida multiday races) to see what the Chief had posted.

http://watertribe.com/Magazine/Y2006/M0 ... udder.aspx

Looks very similar to that on Phil's Foils:

http://www.fastcomposites.ca/products/d ... hp?p=SK01R

For those interested in design basics see :

http://www.fastcomposites.ca/services/t ... erminology

Here is my first effort. Will post sea results later.

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9) Rudder (or tiller) tamer. Basically a device that will clamp down on the rudder control
line(s) so you don't kill your hand holding the rudder in the position you want on a long tack. Need a modification of this. I think it's shown in the Chief's video. I installed one on my AI worked reasonably OK. Device is shown in Figure's #3

http://www.davisnet.com/product_documen ... rTamer.pdf

More latter.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:30 am 
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I agree with you Dan. Seems like the AI could use some Offshore / fishing tweaks. I really like the AI, but the things you pointed out would be nice to haves. Also, I would like to see the design strengthened a little. In particular, a beefier rudder attachment (so pins don't break as easily), stronger aka braces, an ama attachment that seems more secure than bungies. I feel like most of these would only need small improvements to give the AI a solid offshore feeling to it.

Definitely want to see an offshore version of the AI with more storage space. Seems like they could start making various hulls that could be inter-changable with amas and sail. So if people wanted to upgrade or just buy an "adventure" version of the offshore model they could.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:56 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
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Location: Maui, Hawaii
Supposedly the 2011 AI will have the TI's rudder and rudder mounting system, which is a step in the right direction. It'd also be nice if it was built heavier duty and a little higher above the water like the TI (no sitting in the puddle). It also will be getting the TI's aka connect system.

After catching the Shibi Ahi (tuna) a few days ago from the AI, and seeing how much my fishing 1/2 tramp sagged from it's 27# weight and my gear, I've built a new fishing 1/2 tramp using parts of two wind-surfing masts that can now easily hold my full weight. I'll do a post hopefully after this weekend when I have pic's (if the weather cooperates).

Good luck Dan on sealing up the last leaks. I look forward to your sea trial pic's.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:10 pm 
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It's looking good, Dan -- lots of great functional features! It's nice to see this coming to fruition. 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:43 pm 
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Location: Hawaii, Big Island
Thought this seat idea beared mentioning.

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For discussion see:

http://hawaiikayaksailingclub.com/hkscf ... een#msg725

Note that rear seating problems would be eliviated with no tankwell due to enhanced volume aft.

More stuff coming.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:33 am 
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Location: Hawaii, Big Island
A few more points

10. Off set rod holders. Competitors do. Why do Hobies point dead aft? All kinds of contaptions have been built just to get rods seperated enough to run two lines. Have them point at 45 degrees(shown below) from dead aft, even 90 degrees. Advantage with the later is you would stillhave room for a third vertical between the other two.

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11.Provide a shoot through fitting for a dual frequency fish finder. Again other kayak competitors do. But work out a deal with at least two mfgs to use a transducer to sit in a Hobie fitting. (Also make the transducer specs available to others.) Unfortunately I took the below pic too late (after covering with deck) to illustrate transducer even with hull skin.

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12. Provide a "shotgun" rod holder mount (rod can swivel to point to fish). This would fit into mast holder fwd when the mast dismounted in anticpation of fighting a big fish; live baiting aku (skipjack tuna) for example. The center holder aft only needs the offshore swiveler, a Melton device. Although no longer made something similar should be doable.

http://www.meltontackle.com/products/th ... ivler.html

I have one or two other items for open ocean fishing, as well as expeditions.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:39 am 
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Location: Byron Bay, NSW, Australia
Good thread AlohaDan
I agree 100% that a rear hatch instead of the well would be a big improvement, would allow to store a fish or gear inside the hull and would lower the centre of gravity if packed for a trip. To access the area under the well is a pain in the neck. I also agree on the rodholders,a Bailer access port, and a higher volume hull/ bow,or at least a slightly raised seat position to get the bum out of the puddle. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:44 am 
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Location: Hawaii, Big Island
Left out #13. Veturi fitting on scupper hole(s)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:12 am 
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Aloha Dan, U a wild man....Super job on design...and it looks like it floats right. Do you need all the strength you are building in to it? Or using the extra thickness for design modifications...ie looks like 3/4" material in several places. I have been on some of the TransPAc racers..and they really trim the weight back...super project...bet you could fit a dozen Opaka and a couple Uku in that fish box. Have you drop stone from a yak or is the Hilo side too much?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:30 pm 
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Location: Hawaii, Big Island
The thick pieces are just the cockpit gunnels.

Unfortunately you are right on the weight. Way too heavy. I'm not a glass person, so I asked someone to help out that was. Unfortunately NOT!

Probably should be redone using wood strips versus plywood. I thought about a real light weight, just a frame with Tyvek covering. But been bit a few times by grey suit and not sure that would standup like the Adventure.

The fish box turned out nice. It's waiting for 40-60 lb mahi and ono.

I've dropped bags at West side FADs. Haven't got to Hilo yet although I have launched/retrieved from Lapahoehoe, Waimano, Keo Keo etc. I really want to do Pohoiki to Hilo though, the old Puna to Hilo race course.. Will get there eventually

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:39 pm 
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Bump.


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