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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:37 am 
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In Northern California, the $5/gallon barrier was breached this past week.

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Shortly after the above bad price news hit, I took my new Freedom Hawk Bassyak/Pathfinder on its maiden voyage.

The entire Pathfinder after the stabilizers are removed, fits into the little bed of my Ridgeline with the tail gate extended. Many of the smaller Hobie Mirage yaks fit in the beds of the smaller pickups. There are many posts on this site showing how the smaller Hobies fit into pickup beds with and without a bed extender.

I probably could have taken orders for the Bassyak/Pathfinder the day I had it out.

The lake I was on has a maximum hp on gas engines of less than 10 hp. Often I see Jon boats with smaller gas engines or larger electric trolling motors on the lake. We, also, see larger boats with a large motor temporarily not running with a smaller legal motor pushing the heavy boats around. These big boats have an impact on gas mileage when towed on the road or in the water.

As I was getting my new Bassyak/Path connected with its stabilizers and in the water, a couple of fishers with cartop yaks, not Hobies, were leaving due to the wind. I asked them if their yaks and racks on the tops of their vehicles impacted their gas mileage. Both of them said yes. Of course I knew the answer. When, we put our Oasis on the top of our Ridgeline for the first trip home. My mileage went from at least 20 mph to below 16. The racks and Kayak holding gear/saddles on the racks impacted the mileage even without the Oasis. The answers I got from the leaving Yakers, who car topped their yaks, was their mileage was impacted more than they expected with the racks and yaks on top of the racks.

After buying our Oasis, we went to the Malone Sport trailer and mileage is about normal with the trailer and the Oasis on top. If there is a cross wind to and from the launch site, the mileage drops to a little better than with the racks and Oasis on top.

This past week, about every conversation my wife and I had with other people got into the price of gasoline and the impact on our life styles. Many of my boat fishing friends are looking at getting rid of their gas powered fishing boats and going to prams or yaks.

I have recommended the PA or Bassyak Pathfinder to those without a pickup, any kayak experience, and who want a stable platform to get them to and from their fishing areas in the water. I inform they will need a trailer like the Malone Sport to get them to and from the water and to maybe store their yak on the trailer.

Those with yaking experience and a pickup with a bed, I'm telling them to look into the Sport, Revo 11, Outback, PA's or one of the Freedom Hawks with their own trolling motor add on or to have Bassyak fix one for them.

Besides the fun and enjoyment we get from our Oasis, once we get it into the water, I, got into the kayaks for my fishing and water recreation for many reasons: like the closure of access and land around lakes and rivers by those who hate humans and gas prices which would go up. My Freedom Hawk 12 is good for the smaller protected waters, and my new Bass/Pathfinder should be able to handle about any local waters and most conditions I would go out in.

Later this spring, if I can find a local dealer willing to sell a hull only Revo 11 or a Sport, I will probably buy one for solo rec trips. I can throw either yak into the back of my Ridgeline, secure it in a couple of minutes and be on the water in a few minutes. Please no lectures about buying an extra $5-600's of mirage, paddles, cartridges seats. That is a non starter and an insult. I have too many politicians trying to tell me how spend what money I have left after their taxes.

The gas prices, coming inflation due to gas prices, job situations and over control of access to our waterways by those who hate humans will probably make kayaks like the Hobie Mirages, Freedom Hawks and Bassyak yaks the best investment we can make for water recreation.

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2009 Oasis
2012 Freedom Hawk Pathfinder


Last edited by Grampa Spey on Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:11 am 
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Location: New Gretna, New Jersey
I haul my Outback in my F-150, 2WD truck bed. 19-22 mpg typical. I don't notice any difference in mileage with or without my Hobie. What I do notice is my 23 " Formula sitting on blocks when I leave fishing. Her very efficient Volvo Duo Prop drive carried me up and down the coast burning a miserly 8 gallons per hour at 22 knots. Her 108 gallon fuel capacity allowed me to visit the canyons on overnight trips with fuel to spare. But that was when fuel dock prices were a dollar and change. An overnight trip with two men sharing the price load was pocket change. Today I could buy a new Hobie Kayak for every two trips taken on my Formula not counting slip fees and maintenance. I am spending more time fishing, less time and money on maintenance.

The Kayak industry should be booming for able bodied seaman.
Every Captian knows what I'm talking about.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:59 am 
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Yesterday, a younger relative, who stopped by for a visit, startled us by asking to see our kayaks. We are heading to the 3rd anniversary of our 2009 Oasis plus my about 2 year old Freedom Hawk 12 and my new Bassyaks/Freedom Hawk Pathfinder. He and his family besides their son have never been interested in our yaks. They have parked their vehicles by our yaks and walk past them with zippo interest until yesterday.

He has a 23'er with a big motor and the cost to fill it is now over $200, and even some of his day trips with his son are consuming that much gas.

We discussed the ability of the newer Oasis re fishing rod capacity and human capacity as a logical choice for he and his "new" teenager son, same son, who is now a teenager. The son doesn't fly fish and is an avid/good caster with spinning and casting rods could fit up front, and his Dad could cast the same rods from the back Oasis seat. He would prefer not having a trailer to open up his garage for other needs besides storing his 23' boat.

For fly casting he could get a Bassyaks/Freedom Hawk Pathfinder like mine or a PA. Because of his anti trailer mode at this time, he wasn't in a PA mode.

For solo fishing trips for his son, I suggested that they try the Revo 11 or the Outback. His son is a sturdy teenager and could handle either yak.

While he and his son were talking about the yak options, his 15 year old girl, an incredible athlete with a 12 pack ab instead of a 6 pack ab, and her Mother came out and got into the discussion. The girl isn't interested in fishing but was interested in a solo Yak, and she was interested in the Revo 11 or Sport. The mother asked about a yak for her, and I showed her how two people and an a Oasis were a great combo. Also, she could use the Revo or Sport if her daughter wasn't with them. She liked the idea.

They live in an area of the east bay where there are lakes and tame parts of the Delta within minutes. He has a F150 with an 8' bed, and he could fit 2-4 of these yaks in the pickup bed with minimal problem. He has a co worker with a boat similiar to yours, and the co worker has been trying buy his current boat and sell his gas guzzler.

I have the feeling that a lot of people with gas guzzling bigger boats will taking hard looks at the good yaks like Hobie and Bassyak fitted Yaks.

Spinfisherbob wrote:
I haul my Outback in my F-150, 2WD truck bed. 19-22 mpg typical. I don't notice any difference in mileage with or without my Hobie. What I do notice is my 23 " Formula sitting on blocks when I leave fishing. Her very efficient Volvo Duo Prop drive carried me up and down the coast burning a miserly 8 gallons per hour at 22 knots. Her 108 gallon fuel capacity allowed me to visit the canyons on overnight trips with fuel to spare. But that was when fuel dock prices were a dollar and change. An overnight trip with two men sharing the price load was pocket change. Today I could buy a new Hobie Kayak for every two trips taken on my Formula not counting slip fees and maintenance. I am spending more time fishing, less time and money on maintenance.

The Kayak industry should be booming for able bodied seaman.
Every Captian knows what I'm talking about.

_________________
2009 Oasis
2012 Freedom Hawk Pathfinder


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:29 pm 
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Location: New Gretna, New Jersey
Sounds right to me. I put two Outbacks in my truck...I have to tilt the second one and be careful of my mounted fishing electronics. In the absence of fishing gear I have stacked 4 Hobies in the bed (only one was an Outback). Looks a little Beverly Hillbillish but "Whats Worng Wit That ?" :D

I have tie down cletes in the bed and use a single line with a truckers hitch to snug them up.....haven't had any problem bumping down mud puddle pot hole dirt roads. Lost a sweatshirt I left in the kayak on the highway once...but thats my fault. I have looked at various trailers, but parking and turning around are issues in the woods. My Kayak Wars fishing buddies go the trailer route and Boogie D with his tour business hauls penty. Parking a trailer is the only issue.

If they are sweetwater and back bay folks you set them on the right path...On the Ocean front a Revo or Outback will serve them best. I am a fisherman so my perspective is bent toward hooks and lines as my primary activity.

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SpinfisherBob
http://www.youtube.com/user/SpinfisherBob


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:16 am 
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Location: New Zealand
Ha ha welcome to my world - or pretty much the rest of the world. Gas at $NZ2:10 a litre - I run an 1800cc Station wagon and throw the Outback on the roof. If we are taking the Sport out as well I use the garden trailer. I have made up a rack using two pieces of timber 4 nuts,4 bolts and 8 washers. Cost around $25. I have a sneaky feeling that the car uses less gas towing 2 kayaks on the trailer than 1 on the roof. I need to do a comparison. I have a small run about that sits in the shed most of the time and will probably get sold.
For me kayaking is about fishing, exercise and conserving the precious resources of our planet not blowing them thoughtlessly out of an exhaust pipe. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:00 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
char lief wrote:
... I have a sneaky feeling that the car uses less gas towing 2 kayaks on the trailer than 1 on the roof. I need to do a comparison...

I get better mileage towing my Bravo on the trailer (200 lbs of boat, 300 lbs of trailer) than I did with my Adventure Island on the roof. Once you get up to speed, wind resistance plays a big factor with smaller engines especially.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:44 am 
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I went to the single line to snug up my FH12 and disconnected stabilizer/pontoons. I used a longer line for my Pathfinder and its disconnected stabilizer/pontoons and secure the line to the tie down cleats like you.

For local short trips, I use the Edge Truck Bed Retainer/net to secure the rear/main body of the yak down. On the open road with big trucks flying past the opposite way often past the speed limit, creating a good sized wind turbulence, I strap the overhang of the yaks down to the tail gate and secure them with through the unused trailer hitch holes with and adjustable 12' strap. Then I attach the net truck bed retainer to the bed cleats and snug it up.

Spinfisherbob wrote:

I have tie down cletes in the bed and use a single line with a truckers hitch to snug them up.....haven't had any problem bumping down mud puddle pot hole dirt roads. Lost a sweatshirt I left in the kayak on the highway once...but thats my fault. I have looked at various trailers, but parking and turning around are issues in the woods. My Kayak Wars fishing buddies go the trailer route and Boogie D with his tour business hauls penty. Parking a trailer is the only issue.

If they are sweetwater and back bay folks you set them on the right path...On the Ocean front a Revo or Outback will serve them best. I am a fisherman so my perspective is bent toward hooks and lines as my primary activity.

_________________
2009 Oasis
2012 Freedom Hawk Pathfinder


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:52 am 
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I had an OJ Simpson White Bronco with the big Ford engine. When I put skis, ski racks or a pram on the top, we could watch the gas gauge needle drop on a trip.

So I went to a trailer for my pram and had one for our Jon boat. I towed bigger boats for friends with the OJ special.

If there wasn't a cross wind, there was minimal impact on my mileage with any size trailer and boat. Often I had better mileage as I slowed down to the 55 mph limit when towing versus 65 and a little plus for just the vehicle.

charlief wrote:

I have a sneaky feeling that the car uses less gas towing 2 kayaks on the trailer than 1 on the roof. I need to do a comparison. I have a small run about that sits in the shed most of the time and will probably get sold.
For me kayaking is about fishing, exercise and conserving the precious resources of our planet not blowing them thoughtlessly out of an exhaust pipe. :)

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2009 Oasis
2012 Freedom Hawk Pathfinder


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:25 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA
Not sure if this has been covered, but I could see the inflatables making a lot of sense to more people considering a new boat (I have two i12's). :) It won't make gas cost less then 5 a gallon... but I guess they wont make it feel like more either.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:07 pm 
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There's one odd artifact of the strange energy situation we're in right now. The cost of the raw polyethylene (hull material) should actually beheaded down for the foreseeable future.

While liquid fuels are largely the product of crude distillation, many of the high end polymers these days are from the heavier/liquid by-products (ethane, etc...) of natural gas production. These liquids are sold as feedstocks for the refining process to "upgrade" many of the lower quality crudes run through todays refineries and command a significantly higher price than the natural gas they are produced with. With the long term price outlook of natural gas in toilet most oil companies have been increasing their production in these liquids rich areas to maintain profitability. Refiners have also had to focus on higher margin items like high end polymers to remain profitable. These things will likely conspire to create a glut of plastic within a year or so.

What does thise mean for Yaks? Expect to see alot of new contenders in the low end market and lots of innovation from the established players allowing them to continue to command their established price structures. Good news for consumers looking to get out on the water without spending a fortune.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:21 pm 
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Location: New Gretna, New Jersey
Wow, I thought that all petrolium products would be increasing in price. I imaginined that because high quality plastics required more processing and thus more energy the price would be even higher....let alone the price of production, mold heating esp. I gota think about that one...

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SpinfisherBob
http://www.youtube.com/user/SpinfisherBob


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:27 pm 
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Spinfisherbob wrote:
Wow, I thought that all petrolium products would be increasing in price. I imaginined that because high quality plastics required more processing and thus more energy the price would be even higher....let alone the price of production, mold heating esp. I gota think about that one...


All of the things you mention above are largely fueled by natural gas. About the only segment of the supply chain heavily dependent on crude oil would be transport. On an energy equivalent basis (OEB) natural gas is trading at $15 while the same barrel of oil is >$110. There's such a glut of gas now that most analysts are forecasting low natural gas prices for the at least the next 3-5 years.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:34 am 
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Dive-n-Cast wrote:
Spinfisherbob wrote:
Wow, I thought that all petrolium products would be increasing in price. I imaginined that because high quality plastics required more processing and thus more energy the price would be even higher....let alone the price of production, mold heating esp. I gota think about that one...


All of the things you mention above are largely fueled by natural gas. About the only segment of the supply chain heavily dependent on crude oil would be transport. On an energy equivalent basis (OEB) natural gas is trading at $15 while the same barrel of oil is >$110. There's such a glut of gas now that most analysts are forecasting low natural gas prices for the at least the next 3-5 years.



Seems to me that resource pricing has more to do with market expectation then the actual sourcing costs. Namely, speculation of inflation will create a market readiness for it, and the mfg's price goods accordingly. A past client recently got hammered on the price of nylon as a result of oil speculation... I am of course no expert at commodities sourcing, just an anecdotal observation.

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Graduating from adventure junkie to dealer. Get your fix at http://www.fasterfarther.com


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:35 pm 
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Dive-n-Cast wrote:
Spinfisherbob wrote:
Wow, I thought that all petrolium products would be increasing in price. I imaginined that because high quality plastics required more processing and thus more energy the price would be even higher....let alone the price of production, mold heating esp. I gota think about that one...


All of the things you mention above are largely fueled by natural gas. About the only segment of the supply chain heavily dependent on crude oil would be transport. On an energy equivalent basis (OEB) natural gas is trading at $15 while the same barrel of oil is >$110. There's such a glut of gas now that most analysts are forecasting low natural gas prices for the at least the next 3-5 years.


You speak with authority, and it sounds good to me. I like it....now to convert my home to gas...........

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SpinfisherBob
http://www.youtube.com/user/SpinfisherBob


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:43 pm 
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Don't really know how much I'd say the term authority applies, but my family has been working in various ends of the energy industry since I was youngster.

Cryder is right that speculators can really drive the market, but the effects usually push things high in the short term until price collapses. The resulting oversupply usually takes quite a while to clear up.

Spinfisherbob, it might be a good time to consider a switch as some utilities will likely consider helping customers absorb the cost to stimulate demand growth. I'm actually considering coverting my pickup to CNG and installing a home filling station that runs off my gas line. I like the idea of using CNG locally and reverting to petrol for my longer trips to the coast. For me, petrol needs to be ~$5.50 locally for the investment to be cost neutral. Right now it's running ~$3.50 here so I've still got aways to go.


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