Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:28 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Hot melt glue for leaks
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:37 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:12 am
Posts: 2
Hi All from Downunder,

Thank goodness for this forum! Hobie take note; why did I need this forum so badly? Simple answer, your Quality Control is lacking.
After a lot of research (but not quite enough!) I recently bought two Hobie Adventure kayaks for my wife and myself. This kayak suited all that I intended to do with it: hiking with a kayak. Then I found that one leaks and the other does not. When I collected the kayaks I was told by the salesman that its not unusual to have a cupful or so of water inside the kayaks at the end of a day. He also mentioned silicone sealer as a good sealant just in case of a small leak. My (censored) detector went off slightly – why mention this now? These things are brand new. But, OK. However, he might have known something. There was a distinct difference between the two kayaks – one was bone dry and the other had about a litre in the hull at the end of a calm day on the water. After reading the posts on this forum it is clear that Hobie has a quality control problem as my situation is not unique. To solve it by offering hull warranty claims has to be more expensive than getting quality control right in the first place. My kayaks are both sand coloured so I know (but only now thanks to this forum) that they suffer more from this sort of problem. When I took a good look inside the wet hull I saw a ‘welding’ job around the forward support ledge area for the Mirage drive. It looked like someone had simply pushed hot poly into place with their fingers.. You know why I knew this had been done? Because I bought two of them and when I checked the same area on the other one the difference was clear. So someone at Hobie knew this hull had a problem and tried to fix it That’s good, but then they didn’t test their repair job. Now, it’s not as if every hull has to be pressure tested. Obviously it is part of Hobie’s quality control to check their products and repair obvious faults. The unforgiveable part is to then not check a repair. What happens if finger patching with hot poly never works? How would Hobie know? The customers as sure as hell will find out, particularly if they buy two hulls as they can compare them. I was loathe to part with the kayak as it was so much fun to use so I thought I’d try the silicone fix. After pressurising the hull and using soapy water I found 3 leaks. 2 were above water with the third still being where the original ‘repair’ had been made. I bought some expensive marine sealant and slathered it on. It still leaked, but less so. In the end I tested the grip of the sealant and found it easy to flex and peel away from the hull. So under flexing it will part company with the hull. No good. OK, removed all the sealant, went to a local plastics shop and bought some polyethylene plastic to experiment with. I have great news, and I’m really pleased to say I’ve fixed my leak! I found two solutions. The first is to shave some polyethylene slivers and then heat it directly into the cut or hole using either a soldering iron or a lighter sized blow torch. But you need the same sort of poly to make the repair. Inside the hull of your new plastic Hobie are plenty of small bits of scurf left over from drilling. Don’t hose them out! Keep them for repairs. But by far the best solution is to use hot melt glue. It is extremely sticky to polyethylene (bloody rare) and still retains flexibility. You can apply it with a soldering iron (in which case you’re welding it into the hull plastic so be careful) or via the glue gun or just heat the end of the glue stick with a lighter and dob it on. A great patching method is to melt a whole glue stick and pour it on a peelable surface in a sheet. Glue another glue stick as a handle to the centre of your glue patch after it has cooled. Clean the repair surface with turps and then wipe dry. Heat the face of the patch until it’s sticky and then apply it over the hole or whatever. Apply pressure and then a bit more heat to smooth the edges of the patch. Snip the handle off or melt it through. I haven’t found hot melt glue mentioned anywhere else as a solution so I’m only too glad to be able to report it here. Hobie, I love these kayaks but you’re a pain in the arse for making me have to fix mine (you could have stuffed my wife’s one instead! – but eventually you would have received an even worse post than this one, let me give you the drum.). And then I got cranky because I find I’m not the only one. But, I have read this forum on all sorts of subjects and found your responses to be pretty darn good all up. That’s pretty honest of you. So, push the hot melt glue fix – I believe it may be an even better fix than plastic welding as a true weld is not required. If any part of a plastic weld is cooler than the rest it will flex away at that point. A repair with hot melt glue has worked first time. And its cheaper than marine sealant. Hobie, you’ve got everything else right, why not this? You owe me for this!

Cheers, Gyro

_________________
Gyro


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Leaks
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:25 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8918
Location: Oceanside, California
Gyro,

Yes, we owe you. I am glad you were able to work out a solution. We have found that shoe goo or Marine goo bonds as good as anything we have found. I suggest that for future issues. Silicone doesn't really stick to anything.

We are, as you know, well aware that we have had problems here. This is unfortunate, but does happen with production marine products. We try our best, but some issues are quite difficult to detect on the production line. I would take it that the one that had the additional welding inside is of a different production batch than your wifes boat. We have done some plastic welding to beef up under the forward of the MirageDrive. That owuld have been a plastic feed welder, not fingers. Actually every boat is getting leak checked. I am surprised that this one actually leaked due to the welding work. We have now gone to a metal insert in the area to capture more material during molding. That seems to be working quite well.

Yes, we are working further as well. We have done many things to help the production issues and are now working on more new materials as well.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:13 am 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2388
Location: Escondido
Hi Gyro and welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your solutions! This has been a great community resource for all the members here as well as Hobie, not only for problems, but creative solutions, customizations and product reviews.

I like the way you make up those plactic patches! It looks like that technique would also work well to reinforce any thin or weak areas. By the way, I think Hobie offers plastic rods for patching in various colors. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:44 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:47 am
Posts: 5
I'm dumbfounded. 2800 bucks for 2 new Quest boats, alot of research prior to the perchase, and this is Hobie's answer to the fact that 3 trips and I have hull issues... big time. "Sorry to inform that there is no repair kit available - you can always plastic weld - however once a spot get too thin it can be difficult... these hulls are not designed for moving water... and rock bottoms - I'm sure something custom could be fit to your hull that would work, however we won't have info to help...."

Now folks, there is no place where a Quest is marketed that says such things. I even posted to the forum prior to my purchase and it's on this site somewhere regarding this issue.

Unless you're sand and surf or just hanging one in the garage, I'd look A.) elsewhere for the money and B.) research "after the sale" service.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Quest
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:54 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8918
Location: Oceanside, California
MadCap,

I guess you have tacked on to this thread with a new issue. I just noted an email to our warranty manager tonight about your boat and wearing the keel while doing pretty rough river boating.

Wearing through the keel is not altogether a normal experience. We do not have repair kits to address the issue as this is not a common occurance. Not one as it may be with boats designed for running rivers. We do have material available that we can provide at no charge to help you weld on a "skid plate" of some kind. I have your email address from Jacques from tonight and will be happy to do what I can to correct the issue for you in the morning.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:29 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:12 am
Posts: 2
Matt Miller, you're a nice bloke, and the right bloke for this job. I don't envy you. If you ever come to Albany, Western Australia let us know and I'll buy you a beer. Right, off tomorrow for a hike with a kayak for a few days - we'll see how dry I can keep everything! Do you sell a bigger kayak than the Adventure?
Cheers,
Gyro
p.s. Bash plates for Hobie kayaks - I'm still laughing!

_________________
Gyro


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: BigA
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:56 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:56 am
Posts: 822
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Hey Gyro,
A hearty welcome to the Hobie Forum, and really sorry to hear about your leak problem. Considering the large number of BigAs being sold, I'm assuming (i.e., hoping) that the hull leak problems are affecting only a tiny percentage of the boats out there. But, no excuses mate--Hobie does stand by their products and will do whatever it takes to make the situation right. Some great ideas in your post above that I plan to save for future reference if ever (and I hope never) needed.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Leaks
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:57 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:05 am
Posts: 8
Location: Oshawa, Canada
mmiller wrote:
Gyro,

Yes, we owe you. I am glad you were able to work out a solution. We have found that shoe goo or Marine goo bonds as good as anything we have found. I suggest that for future issues. Silicone doesn't really stick to anything.


It is surprising to see Marine Goop recommended for leak stoppage and gluing.
Isn't the hull made of polypropylene? The Marine Goop package reads, "Goop is not recommended for use on polystyrene, polyethylene or polypropylene plastics."

Is hot melt glue a better choice?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group