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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:54 am 
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New to both the forum and kayaking. I'll be looking at an Oasis for its payload, as I want to camp with it. Anyone else into camping with their yaks?

I've camped using my sailboat's dinghy and really enjoyed it. Longest trip was 850 miles on the Yukon River in Alaska.

Sorry for the double post. I posted the first one last Friday and it didn't appear till today. Did give me a good chance to real a lot of other's posts and learned from that.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:21 pm 
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After 850 miles on the Yukon, we should be asking you for advice :lol: .

I've easily done three-day trips with my Outfitter; the Oasis should be better. I'd like to do longer, but work prohibits it. I'll be trying out my new Revo 13 on a three-day trip in a few weeks. I do enjoy it; the longer the trip the better.

Keith


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:05 pm 
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trainsktg wrote:
After 850 miles on the Yukon, we should be asking you for advice :lol: .

I've easily done three-day trips with my Outfitter; the Oasis should be better. I'd like to do longer, but work prohibits it. I'll be trying out my new Revo 13 on a three-day trip in a few weeks. I do enjoy it; the longer the trip the better.

Keith


Keith,

Thanks for the response. On my duplicate post I mentioned that the Rev 13 was my choice, but after adding up my camping load and my body load (265 lb) I was way over the 350 lb payload, so called my local Sacramento dealer and he has a Dune colored Oasis in stock. After discussing my plans, he suggested a trailer instead of car topping, which since I'm 59 and the car is a Ford Excursion 4X4 diesel, I'll be going the trailer route. I'll just use my 24' enclosed auto transport trailer, and know it is over kill, but with the ramp rear door I can have the yak packed, on the wheels and tied down inside the trailer to head out anytime the mood hits me. Plus, it is protected from UV that way.

Here is a copy and paste of my first post last Friday that wasn't moderated till today............


Hi all,

Been reading posts using the search function and haven't come across anybody doing what I would like to do with a Hobie kayak. I would like to use the Mirage Rev 13 for up to 60 nm daily cruises. I am a sailboat cruiser and have used my gas outboard powered dinghy for some long distance gunkholing/camping and have really enjoyed it. Plans for the Rev 13 is a Torqeedo evolve and a single 285 watt solar panel (35.66 volts 8.04 amps). This panel will serve as a dodger for protection from the sun, weighs 50 lbs and measures 77" X 39". My hopes are to use the existing fishing pole holders and the optional inflatable amas's bracket for mounting. I'm not a big fan of raising the CG of the kayak with 50 lbs 3'~4' above the water line but hope the amas in their high setting (lowest drag) will do their intended job.

Think this will work?
Would you use the evolve in the well or rudder?
Are my intended attachment points adequate for a 50 lb load?

Anybody care to comment? I'm all ears.

Thanks,


As you can see, a weekend of thinking about it had me change from the Rev 13 to the Oasis.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:50 pm 
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Location: Escondido
I think the Oasis is the perfect boat for you. It will easily haul you and anything you can pile on (including the kitchen sink!) with great stability.
Image
Note, older model shown here

It makes an excellent solo kayak (ballasted) with almost the same speed as the Revo 13, almost the same maneuverability and almost twice the capacity plus additional passenger capability. No doubt it's the most versatile Hobie made. In addition to what you can carry aboard, you can easily tow an additional raft full of supplies!

With two drivewells, you can set up the evolve in one and the Mirage Drive in the other for a nice extended range under hybrid power, knowing that you have an excellent back-up in case one of your propulsion systems fails. You can also run either with a small sail as well.

BTW, be sure not to store the boat on its wheels for any extended length of time as this can dent the hull. If you can flip it on its rails or provide additional support right side up, you'll be fine. 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:10 pm 
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Sounds like a brilliant plan.

Like many others I have done several 3-dayers but nothing as long as you plan.

My take on it is to pack really light & minimal so that a smaller boat is not overloaded but I am a bit lighter to start with and my packing list is consistent with a trip of a few days not a few weeks.

Re your expectation of 60nm/day - can anyone advise if this is achievable with a Torqueedo? If it is I might be up for one too :-). FWIW I can manage about 25nm/day under pedal power in benign conditions (sea) but I do not think I would be able to keep that up for weeks at a time.

The Oasis should be a good choice & don't forget that it can be sailed too in the right conditions (though you might want to work out a system for staying the mast if your boat is very heavily laden).


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:06 pm 
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Stobbo and road runner,

Thanks guys, I needed to be told not to store it on its wheels because with an enclosed car trailer, that was my plans. As to range, with the little 320 w/hr 8 lb battery the Torqeedo supplies, then 15.5 nm at 1/2 power, which pushes you at 3.7 mph. For my ballast I will be going with 41 lbs of lithium single cells in series, for a 1536 w/hr bank, located in the bow locker. With that weight that far forward of the forward seat, should offer the same trimming effect of a 160 lb person in the forward seat. Range at that same speed with the large bank will be 73 nm not counting what the solar panel adds. The solar panel and this battery will also power a Engel portable marine freezer.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:33 pm 
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With dual controls, you have the option to operate the boat from either seat. I prefer to sit in the forward cockpit when soloing -- the boat is easier to balance and seems to run more efficiently. The front seat is narrower but longer and has a much different feel than the aft. Access to the rear cockpit from the front is better in some ways; you can just spin around side saddle and reach back -- it's not necessary to leave the seat.

Try them both before committing your evolve set-up -- they each have their advantages (the back seat is more spacious, drier in rough weather, and everything is in your view). 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:30 pm 
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Using the fishing pole holders aft, and the sailing mast stepping receiver for the support of the single, large solar panel, would shade the rear seat, but like everyone suggests, I will see which seat works the best for me solo, then do the trimming by battery placement and fore and aft placement of the panel. It will be fun to design all this because the available sub systems are cutting edge. For electric propulsion nobody is more efficient than Torqeedo for nm per wattage used. Combine this with the hull efficient yak design, 285 watt solar and a 17 qt freezer than runs on the same 24 volts the the Evolve needs and will keep food stores frozen for around 150 w/hr/day, which is very efficient. Solar production around 1800 w/hr/day.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:09 am 
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Location: Dumfries, SW Scotland
When people start discussing long trips and payload, one question which comes to my mind is, "how much water do you need to carry?" I've read accounts of long sea trips by kayak in places like Baja California, where fresh water is scarce and a lot has to be carried. It may not be an issue at all, depending on where you go, but it's something to consider when you're working out your ballast.

Mary


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:12 am 
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Daily calorie intact could be a more serious problem on long yak camping trips.

After only a couple of hours in our Oasis, my wife and I can eat a daily calorie intake and still lose weight.

Our younger 40 something son is addicted to bicycle riding and does over 10k miles a year of what he calls fun riding and 5-10 daily miles of commuting riding. He got into trouble a few years ago in Portland by sticking to a normal human's diet.

We had tried to tell him, his daily 2-2500 calories wasn't enough for him. He didn't listen and developed GI problems. Fortunately, the GI doc, he saw was a serious bicycle rider. He told our son to load up with the calories daily and before and during the weekend. When our son asked how much, the Dr. told him to forget the number of calories, just to eat balanced intakes until he wasn't hungry.

He hasn't had a problem since then. He is back in the Napa Valley and is a cellar master in a three story winery. So does a lot of daily stair climbing each day. Starting with the bottling of in August of aged wine and the harvest and crush of premium reds in Sept/Oct/Nov. and his daily rides, he still loses weight with no restrictions re calorie intake.

His teen aged niece, our grand daughter is a competive dancer and does serious dancing practice 4-5 times per week. When, she isn't dancing at class, she is exercising at home/school. She can pop off 40 real pushups several times a day. Instead of a six pack ab, she has an 8 pack.

A couple of years ago we did cab rides for she and her brother while their parents were on vacation for a week. She is built like her uncle/our son with basically zero fat on her lean/trim body. We could see that she was heading into the same under daily calorie intake problems as her uncle. We suggested that she go to her doctor and explain what her daily activity was. Her parents listened to us.

They took her to her doctor, and his advise was the same our son got. Eat and stop worrying about calorie intake. At first this was tough for her parents as both of them besides good daily exercise, have to watch their daily food intake, not to gain weight.

Now, she out eats everyone in her home and our family except her uncle. In a year + on an unrestricted calorie but balanced diet. She has gained about 6 pounds. She is still on the low side of the suggested weight for a girl of her age and height.

Pedaling a Hobie Oasis, several hours per day on a long camping trip, along with the fresh air and other positive enviro impacts would eliminate being overweight for most of us. However, one would need a lot of balanced food intake each day.


Mary Skater wrote:
When people start discussing long trips and payload, one question which comes to my mind is, "how much water do you need to carry?" I've read accounts of long sea trips by kayak in places like Baja California, where fresh water is scarce and a lot has to be carried. It may not be an issue at all, depending on where you go, but it's something to consider when you're working out your ballast.

Mary

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:27 am 
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Mary and Grandpa Spey,

Thank you, a lot of effort went into those posts. On the water issue, I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it. There is the expensive option of using a RO, membrane style water maker like I use on the sailboat, I will certainly have the stored electrons in the battery pack to do this.

As to conditioning and calorie intake, these long trips will be something I'll work up to. I used to have an active life of daily tennis playing, swimming, etc, till 3 years ago when I started caring for my 93 year old dad. He bicycle raced till the age of 85, but slowed a lot after breaking his hip. We both are almost shut-ins, and I am getting out of shape. I have a nurse that stays with him during some vacation time that I take, and she is available for short overnight stays as well. Since I have gone 3 years with little exercise, I am hoping kayaking with the Evolve electric motor would be a safe way to get fit. The Torqeedo unit displays wattage being consumed by the motor that would of course drop during pedaling and would be both a good indication by actual numbers how much I'm contributing to the propulsion equation. Slowly getting fit again while enjoying my wanderlust for marine travel is my goal, and I think I'll be able to do this in a safe manner without the worry of having to over do it, because of the electric drive.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:15 pm 
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There is some really good reading here thanks.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:20 pm 
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Kramster, and some not so good info that I'm guilty of. As much as I would like 285 watts of solar, having 50 lbs 3'~4' above the water line is going to be a stability issue. I thought a good cop-out would be the inflatable amas, but I'm sure my old instructors at California Maritime Academy would cringe. On Tuesday of this week I sailed a Sabot (like an El Toro), then motored in a 15 hp aluminum boat, and a aluminum canoe, and between these 3 boats drove home the point that I shouldn't mess with the Oasis's stability with 50 lbs that high. So I figured I'd go with the 45 watt flexible thin film solar panel built for Torqeedo (the maker of the evolve). The price stopped me in my tracks, $945 for 45 watts???? So, back to the drawing board and found a thin film flexible panel that measures 108" X 15", intended for self adhesive roof mounting. 68 watts, would need two in series (136 watts) for the charging voltage needed for the 29.6 volt Evolve battery. Total cost for (2) $258, total weight for both, 16 lb, and most important, instead of $21.00 per watt of the evolve solar panel, $1.91 per watt. Plus, mounting as a canopy will be a snap, no need for heavy tubing to support 50 lbs.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:48 pm 
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About 23 square feet of superstructure could be a handful in a windy situation, especially in inland waterways where updrafts and downdrafts are common. An alternate might be to just go with one panel to start and see how it goes, with the option to add a second later.

Here's a performance/consumption chart on a couple of other Hobies that will give a general idea of what you can expect:
Image

Even light pedaling adds a nice boost to performance. For instance, with the Outback I logged motor-only output of 50 w for 3.1 MPH and 72 w at 3.5 MPH. By adding easy pedaling the results improved to 31 w for 4.0 MPH and 56 w at 4.4 MPH. Of course your results would vary but you can see the significant benefits of 1) throttling back and 2) hybrid power. 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:16 am 
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Aw, I found a fellow number cruncher. What you posted is the whole idea, for me to slowly get in shape, while I over time start contributing more in propulsion with my legs instead electrons. The 68 watt panels are the smallest mass produced (thus cheap per watt) panels I could find and have an output of 16.5 volts @ 4.1 amps, so need two in series for an acceptable charging voltage. The rate of charging is dependent on voltage differential between charger (solar panels) and battery voltage. If you don't want it to take forever to top off the batteries the last 20% to full charge, then you run at a higher voltage and use a charge controller so you don't over voltage those expensive lithium batteries. The evolve uses cylinder cells that are in series/parallel configuration (I prefer series only) for 230wh, 8 a/hr @ 28.8 volts. For my built-in ballast I'll be mounting (9) single cell lithium batteries in series for the same 28.8 volts @ 60 a/hr, 1728wh. total battery weight is 39 lbs.

I will be switching to diesel/electric hybrid for my sailboat, I am sold on electric marine propulsion. Here is a link to my forum http://tbuckets.lefora.com/2012/03/13/i ... f-systems/

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