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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:27 am 
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Location: Sollentuna, Sweden, Europe
Last outing I could not lift up my Mirage Drive, sprocket shaft was loose and had moved aft. So I started to dismount the drive to check both sprocket shaft and drum shaft at same time. I do some long races so I was curious how worn they were.

I have read the Tech Tips about maintenance from Roadrunner and about lubrication there is no grease mentioned. But in Tech Tip about sprocket replacement there is grease (Marine Boat Trailer Grease) for the shaft. When the kayak was delivered there was also some white grease from fabric.

I am thinking that my use of WD40 could have the effect that it solves and washes off the original fabric grease. My idea is that maybe I should find the most sticky grease possible and apply on both shafts. There is actually a small shaft in wire wheel also.

My idea is that if I can get the grease to stay on the shafts it will also keep sand/other dirt from coming in to friction surfaces.

The most sticky grease I have found is a white silicon grease made for heat transfer from a pipe to a sensor. Contactpaste Wacker P12 is my choice. Very expensive but I had some in my garage.

WARNING! This not an advise to use this! I have NOT tested it yet.

But it is REALLY sticky and I will NOT use any WD40 for places that could wash this grease off. I will keep an extra eye on this during summer 2014 and inspect shafts and plastics at the end of the season.

Feedback would be appreciated.
Am I on to something… or off? .... :roll: :idea: :?:

BR
thomas


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:56 am 
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Kal-P-Dal....I have used Evinrude/Johnson,"Triple Guard marine grease" for trailer bearings and motor pivot points, etc.
Here is a Amazon link http://www.amazon.com/Tube-Triple-Guard ... ard+grease

It's a blue, sticky, waterproof, heavy grease as you noted above. I find it works very well on all of the Mirage drive shafts.
And, don't apply WD-40 to these points with the heavy grease.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:17 pm 
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Isn't there a grub screw to stop the shaft from slipping?

Personally I only ever give my drives a wash down in fresh water then a squirt of CRC (whatever's lying about the garage - currently it is the Marine version) over the chains and the various places where there's a gap to allow a lubricant in on the sprocket shaft, drum shaft ends and the idler wheel shaft.... seems to work OK.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:08 pm 
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Kal, there are three shafts (drum shaft, sprocket shaft and idler shaft). They should all be greased. Some greases are easily washed away with water, so some sort of marine grease is recommended. As long as your grease is water rated, it should work just fine. I use a boat trailer axle grease (not expensive but long lasting); a small tub lasts for years. It will be good to see how your grease works.

It's good to use a light oil of some sort on these greased joints occasionally (not WD-40) -- keeps the grease from drying out. I like to regrease every few hunderd miles.

If any of your shafts are worn, they tend to wear on one side so you can reverse them and effectively get a new surface from your old shafts.

Be sure and mark the ends of your sprocket shaft so the flat spot is facing the locking screw. Snug, but don't overtighten this screw (it can split the spine), but do lock it in with a thread locker (Loctite "Blue" for example) 8)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:26 am 
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I learned from a sailing forum that some manufacturers of "marine" grease use their trade name to conceal that what they are packaging is white lithium grease available from most hardware stores. If one must use a grease on the drive, I would seriously consider the white lithium as it is preferred due to its longevity and hydrophobic properties. A lifetime supply in a tube costs a couple dollars at Ace.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:04 am 
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Here is why I don't trust white lithium for "real marine applications", because I have tried it over 30 years ago on my Mercury outboard motor.....when exposed to water, it did not hold up....turns a brownish/mud color and washes off.
Lithium grease, and common "water proof" auto grease is not the same as marine grade water proof grease.
Marine grease can handle high pressure without galling even in the presence of water.
Marine grease will completely encapsulate the water molecules to form a paste (like cream cheese) that will still lubricate even though water leaked in. Other so called water proof grease will allow water to collect in large globs, that run through bearings and shafts causing scoring and galling.
Marine grease can take high pressure splash without washing off.
Marine grease is designed to work at lower temperatures that marine products run in (marine outboard motors run much cooler than a car motor).

I can attest to the performance and longevity of Evinrude/Johnson,"Triple Guard marine grease" I used on my Mirage drive shafts......it's low cost in a squeeze tube.....the only downside I can think of is it will stain clothing if you get it on you.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:53 am 
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Dr. SteelheadCatcher,

I stand corrected. I read about the white lithium on a sailing forum and felt the author was fairly reputable. Would lithium be better suited for fresh water? Is your experience with it solely salt water? Would the scoring and galling occur in salt water and fresh water? Thanks for the correction.

Jim


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Hi Jim....No problem.
My experience was in fresh water......after I quickly found the white lithium was not holding up, I spoke to the Mercury outboards/boat dealer in my area.....this is where I learned about what was considered the best marine grade grease...The old Mercury marine grease was just like the Johnson/Evinrude grease I now use.....
I live closer to a Yamaha dealer and for what ever the reason, they sell Johnson/Evinrude triple guard marine grease....I think they have this product as Bombardier owns Johnson/Evinrude or they got a deal on it or??

Since it takes a while to fully disassemble and service the Mirage drive (not difficult to do), I only want to do it once and not again a short time later.....more time for fishing!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:18 am 
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Location: Sollentuna, Sweden, Europe
Thanks for all inputs and feedback!

You can google the Wacker P12 and see what it consist of and what it is made for.
The price in Sweden is about 55-60 US $ for a tube (size tothpaste).
I already had one half-full tube.

I have not seen anything more sticky ever. Maybe there is a risk that it will dry out, time will tell.
But my initial guess is that there is NO CHANCE AT ALL this will wash off.
I will test this during season 2014 (may-oct) and post an update on the result.
I will not add anything (oil or grease), my aim is to have a 1-time-product for at least a whole season.
To redo this grease job once a year is really no big deal for me.

The WD40 (or similar better products) I will use for chains and wire ends.

Is there anywhere else to lubricate on the Mirage Drive? Except for pedal ends?

BR
thomas


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:45 am 
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Kal-P-Dal...I agree with you about Wackers P12 "silicon grease" is really sticky......I have used it for the original design intention....to be used to transfer heat from semiconductors to a heat sink for temperature reduction....its really hard to remove unless you wipe it away with a paper towel or rag.

I doubt this grease is a good lubricant......but, who knows as you will be the "test bed" for your idea!

Don't forget to occasionally "lubricate the kayak driver" :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:28 pm 
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Dr.SteelheadCatcher wrote:
Kal-P-Dal...I agree with you about Wackers P12 "silicon grease" is really sticky......I have used it for the original design intention.
Well so have I! Thats why I have a tube.

Dr.SteelheadCatcher wrote:
I doubt this grease is a good lubricant.
I agree, maybe you are right. But as the case is, it is not so much a lubrication problem as it is problem to keep the grease where the action is. Low temperature, low frequence, low load but hard to maintain a film on friction surface, easy to get in sand/dirt and load only on one side of shaft. My analyzes says the problem is to keep the grease in the right place.


Dr.SteelheadCatcher wrote:
Don't forget to occasionally "lubricate the kayak driver" :wink:

This is already well taken care of! Thank you for your concern! :D

BR
thomas


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