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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:58 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:49 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Austin Tejas Y'all
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Twist and Woe Rudder? My New Outfitter and my many new kayak newbie questions.

I finally took the plunge and purchased my first kayak (or for that matter boat of any sort) – a beautiful "safety orange" Hobie Outfitter Fish. Trying the mirage drive a single time convinced me. Wow.

Anyway… having just unwrapped the very well wrapped kayak:

While the kayak is brand new, the serial ends in “K506â€


Last edited by IFlotsamI on Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:10 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2424
Location: Escondido
Hi Flotsam and welcome to the forum!

Q1 Cheer up -- It was manufactured only 10 months ago and is virtually identical to the '07 models, without the price increase!

Q2 Make sure it rotates freely, but not loose. Use a little silicon spray from time to time to keep it lubed. Wiggle the rudder as you lift. There is a "lift" bungee that can be replaced with a loop (Hobie can elaborate on this) to give a little firmer lift. It'll break in with use (sort of).

Q3 Use the new manual if it's better.

Q4 A much better leak test is to put it in the water and see if it leaks -- saves a lot of water! Only if you discover a leak would you want to use your neighbor's method to locate the source. A small amount of water will enter through the cable openings and rudder controls, so no need to chase ghosts!

Q5 Look on the KFS forum http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/5086057385 and check out the posts from Apalach. He is the master of lanyards and shows such an installation.

Q6 Depends on how big a hole you make. You Tejans have to be careful!

Q7 Request a kayak parts and accessory brochure and price list from Hobie. It will serve as an excellent reference.

Q8 Try Mumps. It ought to buy you a couple of weeks.

Q9 Whatever floats your boat!

We'll be looking for your review. 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:49 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Austin Tejas Y'all

Thank you Roadrunner you for your help.

Naturally after further digging I've managed to also answer some of the questions I should have dug deeper on... I'll include what info I've found for any later searchers.


Quote:
Q2: Any suggestions on what to check / fix on the twist and stow rudder?


Quote:
(Roadrunner) Make sure it rotates freely, but not loose. Use a little silicon spray from time to time to keep it lubed. Wiggle the rudder as you lift. There is a "lift" bungee that can be replaced with a loop (Hobie can elaborate on this) to give a little firmer lift. It'll break in with use (sort of).


Thank Roadrunner you for the suggestion... I was uncertain if I should use silicone spray or marine grease. Even after spaying and repeatedly wiggling the rudder - it absolutely will *not* lift... I feel as though handle is going to come off... and the rudder still doesn't lift.

My local dealer didn't have any outfitters in stock (and actually doesn't stock them at all) so in my haste I purchased from an out of state dealer who could deliver more quickly. I called to ask them to order the kit - but was disconnected twice - both after lengthy waits for their service department. I think I'm paying for being impatient and for not buying from a local dealer.

I contacted the local dealer to see about getting the bungee replacement kit from them - and after some berating for buying from another dealer - they agreed to order me the kit. They said it should arrive it in a week and a half. I've read the installation pdf... but I'd appriciate any thoughts on how hard the kit is to install (for someone who has never done this kind of thing)? Hard enough to get the "not my" dealer to do it?


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Q3: Is there a newer users manual and/or service manual, hopefully as a pdf, which is available for the 2007 models which would also apply to my 2006?


Hmm... I'm still not there. Hobie's support page has manuals for the Mirage (which is what shipped with my Outfitter), the Outback, and the Sport. Does Hobie not have an Outfitter specific manual?

Quote:
Q4: Is filling the kayak with water to 'leak test' it safe to the structure?


Quote:
(Roadrunner) A much better leak test is to put it in the water and see if it leaks -- saves a lot of water! Only if you discover a leak would you want to use your neighbor's method to locate the source. A small amount of water will enter through the cable openings and rudder controls, so no need to chase ghosts!


But I'll have to wait for two weekends and put it in the water - rather than vice versa. :-)

My question is really if this is a safe way to locate leaks. It seems that that much water would be well over the capacity of the kayak.


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Q5: Is there anything "special" I need to know about drilling the hole into the drives spine?


Quote:
(Roadrunner) Look on the KFS forum http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/5086057385 and check out the posts from Apalach. He is the master of lanyards and shows such an installation.


I'm guessing you mean this link: http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 5081010751

At a demo I repeatedly slid the pedals from furthest slot (my normal use) to the closest slot (my daughter sitting in front of me paddling) - so I'm inclined to not use the pedal adjustment holes. Of course at this point I should mention that the outfitter is so amazingly stable my daughter, all of 4, can walk back and front in it. I'm just looking for some assurance that drilling a reasonable hole in the "insert" of the plastic isn't going to void any warranties or weaken the drive spine.


Quote:
Q6: Does this effect the warranty of the drive?


Quote:
(Roadrunner)Q6 Depends on how big a hole you make. You Tejans have to be careful!


Too big? http://ultimateview.blogspot.com/2006/0 ... drill.html

Okay. It's the first hole in my first boat... I may be a bit paranoid. :-) And not all Texans are crazy... but I suppose I can't prove it.

Q7: What would a replacement spine (part # 81181) cost?


Quote:
(Roadrunner)Q7 Request a kayak parts and accessory brochure and price list from Hobie. It will serve as an excellent reference.


Thanks. I had found the sales brochure online, but had yet to consider that they would send a parts price list. I'll call them tomorrow.

Thanks again for the help and putting up with my novice questions.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:11 pm
Posts: 87
Location: GA
Tell the in-laws your headed to the local lake and they are welcome to watch and/or join.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:56 am
Posts: 822
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Hey Flotsam-welcome!
The Outfitter is a great boat and congrats on getting one-it is an Outback on 'roids! Don't know if you saw it or not, but here is my earlier review of it--it has so many options for use as a solo fisher, a dive platform, a great family tandem boat, etc., etc..

http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewt ... =outfitter

No need to do any drilling for A Mirage drive leash (excellent idea, BTW). Just bolt a SS shackle thru one of the unused adjustment pin holes. The shackle can be easily removed and/or readjusted as need be. Looks like you found my leash post, but here are a few newer pics.

Image

Image

Image

Twist-N-Swear rudders sometimes have problems-it was determined a while back that the tension on the up-down control line needs to be adjusted slightly, plus a few other tweaks, including a kit. Check some earlier posts on this topic on the Forum. Matt Miller, the Hobie Guy, had several suggestions on this.

Here's a new thread over on KFS about the Outfitter.

http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 3301019372

Have fun, and I guarantee you will!
Best,
Dick

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 Post subject: Hobie Outfitter
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:49 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Manitoba CANADA
Flotsam.

Twist and 'woe' rudder (watch it, like the rudder, the name - might stick). Depending what environment you will be kayaking in, I would not be too keen on spraying the rudder with any kind of grease or silicone if you are around sand. The sand might stick and act as an abrasive. I admit though, I often store my boat upside down on a sandy beach, hence my hesitation.

Your rudder problems sound like a déjà vu. This was exactly how my rudder was when I first got it last July. It felt like it was going to break and it actually broke twice before my dealer performed the bungee line-up replacement. After this upgrade it worked better but then again broke for the third time and the handle came off.

All of this made me rather nervous about the twist and stow rudder. I posted my doubts a few weeks ago in this forum thinking that there were going to be an angry avalanche. There was nary a response. I recently took it back to the dealer (bless Hobie for its professionalism and excellent after-sales policy). Together, we checked the lines and by manually pulling on the lines, the rudder activated exactly as it should. He suggested that something stowed in the hatch had lodged under the lines causing undue pressure on the lines making it fail. Note to all twist and stow rudder owners: Heads up on storing stuff in the aft hatch on the starboard side (back hatch / right side) under the guide lines.

My conclusion then is that the twist and stow rudder after the upgrade should work like it should. I certainly hope so as it might only be next year that I will be able to put it through its paces again – the weather has turned cold. But then again – it’s a Hobie and the hull is guaranteed for 2 years – boy, am I grateful.

I feel for your dealer situation – not buying local. Sorry can’t help you there. However, Hobie is a franchise. Usually a Chevy dealership will take in a Chevy in need of attention even though it wasn’t bought there. If your local Hobie dealer was smart, he would welcome a new opportunity to sell the full gamut of Hobie aftermarket accessories for the boat. But I agree, the pdf on the bungee upgrade does not seem comprehensive enough - it seems more like a guide. I would eat humble pie and let your local dealer do it, unless you feel handy and confident enough to swing it.

Regarding the manual – I received an Adventure / Outfitter manual. It sounds like you have received the wrong manual. But be forewarned, this manual is very generic - it applies to all mirage kayaks. However, there is a page specific to the twist and stow rudder system that does outline adjustments that can be performed to optimize it.

As to the water test, like Roadrunner suggested, I would forego filling the hull with water. My Outfitter in chop will take in a cup or two which is normal. The Outfitter you will find is a very dry ride. The only exception is the front passenger may get a bit of splash from the bow when headed into heavy wind and chop.

Drilling holes into the mirage drive is something I wouldn’t even consider. Just my choice. I think Apalach has once again nailed the answer and delivered the goods in the previous post.

A few other observations that I would like to share. As you have already mentioned, the Outfitter is an incredibly stable boat. It is more than this. It is unbelievably rock solid. You will never need to purchase the sidekick / amas, even with 2 passengers, fully loaded with gear, and a full sail in a howling wind – there is no danger of capsizing (I guess there is always a first time). The only reason I could see you buy the amas is if you and a (heavy) partner were intent on both standing up in the boat and dancing – or casting. Even then it might flip only if both of you were to jump up at the same time and land on the same side of the boat. I am exagerating of course. The bottom line is that if you don't plan on standing up in your boat you won't need the amas.

Stability, you will quickly discover is one of the great advantages of the Outfitter. This means you will never need to wear a life jacket (I know that this statement might rile some up). The boat is that stable. We keep the jackets on deck of course. We make younger kids wear them. But personally, I could never tolerate wearing one. And with this boat – you won’t need to. I’m sure the stability comes at some cost to the performance (wider hull = slower speed), but there sure is something to be said about having the comfort of complete confidence and peace of mind – at all times.

On the subject of speed, the Outfitter is no speed demon but neither is it a slouch. My wife and I cruise at 3.5 on the pitot scale (I don't have any fancy gps). In a short but not sustained burst, my 20 year old son and I have gotten it over 6. Alone, using the sail only in optimum conditions I have been able to sustain 5.5. Just to give you an idea.

If you don’t own the sail kit - it should be on your list. It is simply a blast. With it you will do distances that will astound you. I have ordered the sailing rudder which should definitely improve direction heading up into a wind.

If you need to negotiate soft sandy beaches getting your boat in the water consider getting the Hobie Trax. I regret having purchased the Rolleaze canoe/kayak cart with pneumatic rubber tires (not the balloon). It just does not cut it in soft sand. Had I known I would have sprung for the Trax from the get go.

The other thing I should have done was to take better care of the hull. I am taking the liberty of copying a post by Roadrunner from the KFS website (hope he doesn’t mind).

“Any car wax works fine. I use McGuires because it happens to be on hand. Cleans the hull up well and makes it nice and slippery. I also use clear packing tape along the keel line to protect the plastic from scratches. Works great! The tape also works well to cover the front half of the scuppers to minimize drag. The little differences add up. I need all the help I can get!â€


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