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 Post subject: Question about Carts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:11 pm 
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I'm picking up a new Outback this weekend and was planning on getting a scupper cart. We're on a bridgeless barrier island and I'll mostly be launching from the beach or a kayak dock into the intracoastal. They're both roughly half a mile from my house. No cars, so I was thinking I'd pull the kayak on its cart from behind a golf cart or maybe behind my bike using a Dumb Stick or similar bike hitch, although I'm sure I could just walk and pull the kayak on the cart myself, too. And then I read in the Hobie accessories catalog that the carts aren't intended for towing, long distances, moving faster than a walking pace, or steps. I do have to go up 2 steps on the way to the kayak dock, I'm not sure what they mean by long distances, and I guess towing behind a slow moving golf cart or bike is still towing, right? Is that statement in the catalog just an abundance of caution, or will the Hobie carts have a problem with this? Would a regular cart be better than a scupper cart for what I'm doing? Any other thoughts? This is my first kayak (I've only rented right at the water before), so this transporting stuff is new to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Carts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9308
Location: Oceanside, California
It is with an abundance of caution that we do not suggest towing. You can't feel resistance when towing. If the cart starts having issues, you could damage it or the boat without realizing. Then again, slow and careful while also using some lubricant from time to time... It could work.

I'm quite certain that other users in these forums do just what you plan to do and could offer their insights.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Carts
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:33 pm
Posts: 225
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Welcome Mdoc.
You are sure in for a good time with a new Hobie kayak.
I personally hate the scupper carts, second time out, put a hole in my TI.

The steps sound like a real problem.

Although you are getting an Outback they are all made of that great polyethalene that unfortunately gets a little softer with heat and prolonged concentrated pressue.

Personally, I would be looking for a very light trailer.

Do some searching on the Open Island forums, there is a lot of information and ideas.
Although they are often talking about Tandem Islands, the ideas will transfer well to your Outback.
May you therefore have many happy hours with your new kayak.

Cheers,
Brian is South Australi


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Carts
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:20 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
We have made changes to scuppers to prevent damage from carts since this occurrence. We now have molded inserts that distribute the cart post loads rather than allowing contact directly with the scuppers.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Carts
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:20 am 
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I have another question about wheels. If I launch from the dock, I'll be going roughly half a mile on a well compacted sand/shell road (OK, it's well compacted if it hasn't been raining too much - it can be a potholed mess after a substantial rain), and then a hundred yards or so on a wooden walkway. If I launch from the beach, I'll be going about a third of a mile on the sand/shell road and then a quarter mile or so on the beach - 50 feet in loose sand and the rest walking on firmer sand closer to the water so I can get from the gulf side to the intracoastal side of the island to launch without waves. If I was always going to the dock, I'd probably get the heavy duty cart with the foam wheels. But I can't tell how well that will do on sand. Or how well the sand tires will do on a sand/shell road. Are those sand tires pretty durable?


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Carts
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:07 pm 
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Location: Oceanside, California
The sand tires are durable, but the effort to pull is more on hard ground than the HD type tires. Of course... the HD tires are narrow and harder to pull over soft sand. Of the two issues... I'd guess the distance over soft sand is most difficult. I'd choose sand tires.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Carts
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:48 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Missoula, Montana
I don't like scupper carts because of the stress they put on the scupper holes, and because they attach away from the center of the kayak, so you have to support a lot of weight when pulling the kayak. I prefer a big-wheeled cart which you can strap to the center of balance of the kayak, slightly nose-heavy. I particularly like the Seattle Sports All-Terrain Center Cart. I have two of these. While they are kind of expensive if you buy them new, I have seen some available on Craigslist recently for about $50. Here are a couple pictures of my 13" Trident full of all my spearfishing gear on one of those Seattle Sport carts. These carts work great on hard surfaces, but I suspect that the bike tires wouldn't work well on soft sand.

Image

Image

Seattle Sports sells a variation on this cart called the "Paddleboy Go! Cart," which has a pole which attaches to a hitch on a bike. You could improvise one of these poles and hitches pretty easily if you wanted to tow your kayak behind your bike.

Here in Missoula we have a whitewater play wave in the downtown area called Brennan's Wave. A lot of local kayakers use a cart to tow their kayak from their home to the play wave behind a bike. But it's easier to tow a 6 foot long whitewater play boat than a 13 foot long fishing kayak, because the tongue of the cart only needs to be half as long.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Carts
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:17 pm
Posts: 537
Location: Auckland NZ
Get a C-Tug with hard wheels and a tripod stand. It is a great bit of kit and works well with Hobies but you may need to modify the buckles on the strap to stop the buckle working loose when you put a lot of tension on the strap (like when you are pulling your yak through soft sand); this is a cheap and easy mod, though and it might even come with a better buckle these days (mine original one is a few years old and the newer one definitely had a better strap than the original - much longer - but I seem to remember that I replaced the buckle for a coupla dollars before using it)

Loading is a breeze because the cart stands up on its tripod. It has wide pads which don't dent your hull and you can shift the boat forward and aft on the cart to find a good balance point to make towing easier. Stowage is a breeze because the cart comes apart in seconds and it'll easily stow in the forward hatch so you don't have to leave it on the beach and/or you have the cargo area clear for other kit that you actually need on the water. The wide hard 'sand' wheels have rubber centre 'tyres' so they work well on hard surfaces but are wide enough for sand and if you really have a lot of soft sand to cross there are clip-on extensions to make them massively wide (haven't tried these myself but they definitely make sense!). Oh, and it is plastic so no rust.

They're actually made in NZ I believe, which you may notice is where I live... I am nothing to do with the company - just a very satisfied user.

http://www.c-tug.com


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Carts
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:41 pm 
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X2 on the C-tug as stobbo recommended. I replaced the strap on mine with an NRS strap that Dr. Steelheadcatcher suggested and found it to be the solution to strap slippage. I can crank down on the metal cinch buckle and not worry about the original plastic buckle popping open while pulling or pushing my Outback over irregular terrain.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Carts
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:32 pm
Posts: 252
Location: Out There
Personally, I would not tow a kayak on a kayak cart behind a powered vehicle. Too many things could go wrong. Bicycle? A loaded kayak seems a little heavy and awkward for a bike; you could fall and get hurt. Maybe one of those industrial strength tricycles.

I have to cart my kayak into some pretty rugged places; rocks, sand, forest blowdown, etc. I've been using the same basic PVC kayak cart for years and it's never let me down. Sometimes I worry about the amount of stress on the front clevis, but it shows no sign of damage or weakness.

Image

Usually, I have to haul the kayak at least an eighth to a quarter mile, some places are nearly a mile hike away, morning transports are in the dark using a headlamp.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Carts
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2102
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
stobbo wrote:
The wide hard 'sand' wheels have rubber centre 'tyres' so they work well on hard surfaces but are wide enough for sand and if you really have a lot of soft sand to cross there are clip-on extensions to make them massively wide (haven't tried these myself but they definitely make sense!). Oh, and it is plastic so no rust.

They're actually made in NZ I believe, which you may notice is where I live... I am nothing to do with the company - just a very satisfied user.

http://www.c-tug.com



It may be a weight issue and they may work OK with lighter kayaks but the Sidewinder extensions are rubbish in my opinion... at least with the AI/TI.
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=46391&start=30
I don't know how much testing was done before release but in deep loose sand they do not work as advertised.
The C-Tug itself is a great little cart but until they produce a sand tyre that works forget using it in sand.

mdoc wrote:
And then I read in the Hobie accessories catalog that the carts aren't intended for towing, long distances, moving faster than a walking pace, or steps. I do have to go up 2 steps on the way to the kayak dock, I'm not sure what they mean by long distances, and I guess towing behind a slow moving golf cart or bike is still towing, right? Is that statement in the catalog just an abundance of caution, or will the Hobie carts have a problem with this? Would a regular cart be better than a scupper cart for what I'm doing? Any other thoughts? This is my first kayak (I've only rented right at the water before), so this transporting stuff is new to me.

mdoc,
For the last 7 years I've been using a scupper cart in my twice weekly commute with my Adventure kayak. Each trip I wheel the kayak by walking about 4kms so I'm covering around 400kms a year on road/pavement/grass. I've mostly been using the Hobie HD cart with the foam wheels and apart from the odd cracked weld I have had no cart issues and zero scupper problems. I do use Roadrunners tennis ball mod which helps a lot with even scupper support and adds shock absorbtion.
Two steps shouldn't be an issue if you use the carts pin lock keeper and maybe a bit of carpet for bow protection on the steps landings.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Carts
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:55 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2424
Location: Escondido
Lots of good options and successful uses for a variety of carts!

Stringy probably puts more miles on his carts in a year than most of us will in a lifetime. The fact that he uses a scupper cart is a pretty strong endorsement and I agree 100%. My scupper carts have been hauling Hobies since 2006 and I have never had a cart or boat fail in transport. I use only the Hobie standard cart, but it has hauled every boat in the Hobie fleet including TIs (probably not recommended) and Pro Anglers (relatively short distances).

I have a couple of different strap-on carts for non-Hobies, but IMO they don't compare -- vary rarely use them.

The foam filled Hobie wheels are impervious to flats. The cart is easy to insert and extract in the water, stows on the boat, floats, weighs little and is the quickest and easiest piece of gear that I know for launching and recovering. The carts work well on rutty roads, small rocks and packed sand. Definitely difficult in soft sand, yet I even use them there for infrequent short crossings.

IMO, most boat damage that has resulted from scupper carts has been from mis-use -- dropping the boat or putting weight on a partially inserted cart (cart legs not extending completely through the hull). and hopping curbs. Now that all new boats have scupper liners, it would take a lot of talent to break a boat with a cart! I use mine with 100% confidence, even on the older boats.

If stringy recommends the heavy duty Hobie cart for extended use, that's what I would use.

I would tow with a bike up to about 5 MPH as long as the road is relatively smooth (and you have a place to secure the bike at the launch point). It should be no more difficult than towing a kiddie cart. If the rolling surface is rough (i.e. any longitudinal strain against the hull), I'd get off and walk it. Common sense should prevail! 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Carts
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:25 pm
Posts: 2102
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
Roadrunner wrote:
If stringy recommends the heavy duty Hobie cart for extended use, that's what I would use.


I've just realised that in my earlier post I refered to the heavy duty cart. I'm actually using the Trax1 cart fitted with the heavy duty foam wheels. Sorry for any confusion. The HD cart has a narrower hollow tube axle whilst the Trax cart has a wider solid shaft axle. By getting the Trax2 cart you can swap the balloon wheels with the HD wheels and have all terrains covered. The balloon wheels don't fit on the HD cart. More info here:
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=21856&p=102046


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