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 Post subject: Clip-On Pedal Report
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:53 pm
Posts: 55
I've posted a report on installation of clipon pedals to the Hobie Mirage drive in another forum. Rather than repeat it here, I'll just give the link and hope this doesn't violate the forum rules.

http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 7641019633

Thanks!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:56 am
Posts: 822
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Hey New,
As I mentioned over on KFS, great report! I think you ought to duplicate post the same info here on the Hobie Forum so everyone can see it first hand since there has been a lot of interest among the bikers about how to do this. Thanks again.
Dick

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 Post subject: Duplicating Post
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:42 pm 
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Ask and you shall receive! Here is a duplicate post:

There have been many discussions on various Hobie forums regarding the potential use of clip-on bicycle pedals on the Mirage drive. I followed these threads out of curiosity, but never thought I would bother trying, until a long kayak trip last fall. After 6 hours of pedaling barefoot (not very smart of me), I had such severe foot cramps in both feet that knew I had to do something. I had also noticed that unless I wedged my foot into the footstraps hard, the effort of holding my foot up would be tiring after a long trip. (A previous poster made loops of seatbelt material to hold his feet up). Suddenly, I was more serious about the possibility of clipons.

There is a huge selection of clipon types and shoes. I chose Mountain bike type for ability to function when caked with mud (although I could find nothing saltwater rated). Also, I still love the "barefoot when pedaling" feeling, so I quickly narrowed my choice to sandals. These two decisions led to Shimano SPD Sandals and pedals.

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However, I did not want to lose the ability to pedal with shoes other than clipons (waders, boots, etc), so I selected a SPD pedal that has a normal pedal on one side, and the clipon attachment on the other side. This way, I can launch and land unclipped, and clip in once underway.

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The first hurdle I faced was the stock Hobie pedals were permanently attached.

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However, previous posters had swapped out pedals. A quick post to Matt confirmed that Hobie had transitioned from solid threaded pedal arms to hollow non-threaded pedal arms for weight-savings. He still had some older pedal arms lying around, gave me the part number [81105 CRANK ARM RIGHT, THREADED, 81100 CRANK ARM LEFT, THREADED] and KFS was nice enough to special order them for me (Thanks KFS!)

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Now all I had to do was swap the old and new pedal arms, and mount the new clipons.

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Substituting the new and old pedal arms was fairly straightforward, and not as difficult as I thought. One down...

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Done! (Or so I thought...)

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I attached the SPD clip to the bottom of the sandals...

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and clipped them to the pedals. Darn! The shoe hits the pedal arm during a typical stroke. A quick check with a ruler (should have done that earlier) verified that the center of pedal to center pedal arm is much closer with clipon pedal. After much surfing and searching, I found an appropriate spacer (made out of stainless) that was threaded on one end and tapped on the other, in both right and left hand threads.

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The spacers worked great, but the left hand tapped end had squared off threads and was a bear to screw into. Final revision:

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All of this saga was last fall. Afterwards, I had a baby and life's priorities changed (temporarily), and the project was shelved. Well I'm excited to report that I finally had a chance to field test the clipon pedals today!

Here's the pedals on my Sport:

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and here's with my sandals clipped on.

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The black socks are sealskinz from KFS. The socks and sandals are a great combination! Felt like I was barefoot, but my feet were dry and warm.

So how'd they work, and were clipons worth all this effort? Good question... These are obviously overkill for casual kayaking. However, I did notice (or at least imagine) there was an improvement in efficiency in pedaling. They were very comfortable throughout the entire range of motion, and it was nice not to have to hold my leg up on the pedal. Clipping in and out was very easy, yet they did not try to unclip when in normal range of motion. A major unanswered question I'll try to answer when the water warms up (and I have a safety buddy) is to hullie the kayak and see if the pedals will unclip easily. Worse case, the sandals only have velcro holding them close, but I can imagine a twisted/broken ankle or worse (drowning) if they do not unclip in this situation. For now, I will stay unclipped during launch and landing, and most fishing, saving clipping in for the long slog to and from my fishing hole.

So, would I do it all over again? YES! After spending today with the clipons, I can honestly say it was worth the effort, and added to the Mirage experience.

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I hope everyone enjoys my clipon report, and find value in it. I have learned so much from this forum, I thought it was time I repaid the favor.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:00 pm 
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Bravo! This is one really cool mod!


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 Post subject: Excellent report
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:59 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:37 pm
Posts: 46
Location: San Francisco
Thanks for excellent report. Two questions:
1. What was you source for the spacers?
2. My biggest concern about this modification is salt water corrosion inside the pedals. Any thoughts on that?
-thanks


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 Post subject: More info
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:50 am 
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(Duplicate post from KFS...)

The spacers are from Kneesaver, although I have a hard time recommending them, as they never returned any of my phone calls or emails. I finally found a bike shop that had them in stock and ordered them at Harris Cycle Also, the inside left-handed thread was botched with squared-off threads. They come in 20, 25, and 30mm widths, and aren't cheap at $45. I used the narrowest 20mm width, and my measurements show this still gives a slightly wider than stock spacing. They are available in titanium, but those are even more expensive. I am expecting some galvanic corrosion between the stainless spacer and aluminum pedal arm, and will keep an eye on it.

I got the sandals and pedals from Performance Bike during their fall end of season sale, and got a decent discount. The sandals are around $65 [Shimano SD65] and pedals around $75 [Shimano PD-M324], before discounts.

As you can see, the costs really add up fast. The total cost is within reason, if everything holds up a long time. However, if everything ends up only lasting a couple seasons due to kayaking environment, then it will not have been a very wise investment. I plan on spraying them down after each use, and using some Corr-X or Salt-X after my saltwater excursions. I haven't checked them yet to see how easy it will be to access and perform maintanence on the bearings yet.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 11:32 am
Posts: 183
Location: Portland, OR
To prevent corrosion between the SS bushing and the aluminum arm, you can use some Lanocote. I've seen it as both spray and paste, but have only used the paste.

I have used this for many years any time I have SS and AL in contact, such as when mounting SS hardware on masts, crossbars, etc. and I've never had any problems. However, in the few instances where I skipped it (because I didn't have it handy or I was in too much of a rush to get on the water) I've always regreted it!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:59 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
Nicely done but readers dont assume that Clipless systems will automatically be right for you.

A pair of ten dollar plastic boat shoes wedged in the straps will stay there and always hang with the shoe facing you so you can slip your foot in without rotating the pedal platform with your toe, the heel strap allows you to relax without holding your foot up, yet allows easy disengagement by lifting the heel.
Also you can choose your foot position, not everybody is happy with the pressure on the ball of your foot but that is the only position Clipless systems will allow you to have.
Some ppl like to pedal Flat-Footed, (pedal in center of foot), because they get numbness or cramps if they pedal with their toes all the time.
You may think that it is better with Clipless because you can pull as well as push. I can tell you that pulling-pushing is not easy and takes a lot of practise to get the action smooth for only a little bit of extra power.

PPL who's feet are turned out, or in, will also have probs with Clipless systems as they now have to hold their heels outwards or inwards to avoid the cranks. (Knee-Savers can help this.)

And what about a capsize with your feet fixed to the pedals, can you do the release motion before your head goes under water?
Experienced Clipless cyclists still have fall-overs because they cant get their feet out of the pedals quickly enough in a sudden stop, or emergency.
Being trapped face-down under your boat is not a good place to be.
Also I know from experience that Shimano sandals will not last very long after being exposed to salt water, although Kayaking in America seems to be about staying dry, probably because of the cold climate and cold water.

http://202.60.65.6/SkyMax/index.php?alb ... kShoes.jpg

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 2:42 pm 
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Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
[img]http://202.60.65.6/SkyMax/index.php?album=&image=KayakShoes.jpg[/img]

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