2015 Outbacks leaking from the front hatch

Surf launching is going to be the extreme condition for an hatch seal - when using the liner it seals good into the hull - but there isn't a seal between the hatch cover and the liner - so what you've previously experienced is the norm with hatch liners. The more important thing to know is the hull is sealed.

_________________
Jacques Bernier
http://www.hobie.com/
http://www.facebook.com/HobieCatCompany

Some users have added foam to the inner surface of the hatches to seal against the liners.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I have added a seal to my liner and it works fine. But I think I have come up with a solution instead of using a liner and that is installing a bulkhead in the front compartment of the outback. I will be posting pics in a day or to in this forum. Here is a video for now that shows the bulkhead in my older Outback and Revo[youtube2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryHbtESGBoM[/youtube2]

this lack of seal with a bucket product Hobie sells gets me too. This is why I suggest a different seal that seals the outer edge of the hatch/lid. This way the bucket is taken out of the mix as is the hand cutting/trimming issues with the hatch hole.

Hobie, is this issue going to be resolved on your 2016 models?
I was going to buy one of the 2015s but this leaking irritates me.
Also when is the 2016 model release date?

I'd hope they resolved it with their 2015 models first, honestly. I really don't like the idea of my kayak taking on water when I'm using it to go into blue water (let alone the havok that saltwater does to wiring + current).

I love the yak, but this issue is unnerving and rather worrisome that Hobie is already releasing a new model a year later, when the last one before the 2015 was 4 years prior.

I wouldn't mind a fix for this via a warranty to be released....

This is not a 2015 issue. The hatch is unchanged for many years. The design has been well received for many years, so this is a workmanship / seal expectation issue. Most of this is related to production volume and new hire training and not a consistent problem by any means.

They all will leak a bit as it is virtually impossible to make a large hatch seal 100%. Even without the rubber seals it would be effective for 90% of the time / users. The overlapping hatch and hull flange alone will handle most of it. Only when submersed or inverted is the rubber gasket really doing anything.

We have our engineers focus on this and they are reviewing trim seals that can overcome variances in production and use better. Nothing to report beyond that yet other than it is intended to fix boats in the field too.

As far as 2016 (even later 2015's)... of course when we noted the increase in reported problems with the seals, the factory took actions to correct the problem. I would expect boats built within the past number of months to be much more consistent as they changed some tooling and did more training.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

All might be true but the new 2015 Outbacks plane more level in the water (Older models would tend to be lower in the rear thus bringing the bow out higher off the water.) The 2015s ride more even or level in the water. I believe this is because of the new seating system. Thats why the new Hobies go faster with less effort. Before anyone tells me about the new drive or its the way you sit now, I have a new Drive in my older Outback although its better it still plows through the water instead of planing. It seems to me that the new Outbacks take more water over the bow more easily the my older ones. Not trying to dissuade anyone from buying this Kayak its a great platform to fish from and very seaworthy. I loosened the hinge straps on the front hatch this allows the hatch to sit further down on the deck of the hull and also put extra thick gasket around the front hatch.

P.S. No charge for the insight Hobie LOL

Why is the hatch opening trimming a hand operation in the first place? This should be cut on a CNC machine so that every kayak is cut correctly. I can't believe Hobie is letting new hires cut out hatch openings. If this is the case, there should be a go no-go gauge to check the consistency of the trimming on each kayak. This is not just trimming flashing off, this is a critical area and should be cut with some precision. Even if it is trimmed by hand, a jig template can be used to guide the cutting to prevent issues like this.

I don't want to waver off topic, but some observations over the past several years are starting to be worrisome:

-Hobie is developing new features and redesigns very quickly, sometimes without enough testing. (TI handles come to mind)
-Quality has been diminishing due to overseas sourcing of many components. (Seat buckles not made of SS material..., paddles coming apart due to bad batch or poor mixing of adhesive that secures paddle to shaft. This one should go away since Hobie is now outsourcing paddles to Cannon)
-Hobie is not proactive about notifying dealers when an issue is discovered. (Again, a cost issue, if nobody complains about the rusty seat buckles, they don't have to replace them.)
-Hobie is very good about warranty claims in my experience, but I feel they should be more proactive instead of waiting for enough consumers to discover the issues independently, sometimes in a dangerous situation. (Taking on water in an offshore capsize)
-Some features have been dropped due to cost (Attachment point for mirage drive bungee when not in use on Outback, paddle bungee on left side of Revolution)

Maybe I should start a new thread...

No way to use CNC for a feature like this. We use trim Jigs... just had some minor issues with them and how they were used.

We have a rigorous testing program. Not everyone (handles) agrees with everything we decide to do on the boats, but they are "our" boats. We have to decide what we think is best.

I would not agree that quality is diminishing.

We do inform dealers of issues... Not all dealers or all dealers staff read bulletins. These are not Hobie owned businesses and our products are not always their primary focus. We do try very hard to share information and from most accounts... are the best in the business in doing so.

The issues noted were changes due to incompatibility... not cost driven.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

I understand the difficulty with making manufacturing operations perfect. Sometimes it takes some real engineering to make a trim jig dummy-proof, but it can usually be accomplished. I guess the rigorous testing you are referring to is for the testing of new features, not quality control testing on each boat. If each boat were tested, the hatch trim issue would definitely have been discovered and would never have made it out of the factory.

I am also not sure Hobie made dealers aware that there was a batch of seat buckles made with inferior chrome plated steel instead of stainless. Are you saying this issue was in fact communicated to dealers?

Since you seem to have issues with dealers not always getting information to the end customer, why not post any bulletins on the website for customers to access? This would eliminate the communication problem entirely. It would also make Hobie a more transparent company and earn more respect.

How is it no longer compatible to install a screw in padeye for attaching the mirage drive retaining bungee cord when not in use on the Outback? Now it just flops around. I think it was dropped on the Outback for the '13 model year. There are padeye threads installed all over the boat, so not sure why it would be incompatible to put one more somewhere to replace the one that was eliminated.

I have owned Hobies for about 10 years and have always been pretty satisfied with the product and customer service. It just bothers me that some issues could have been prevented or addressed differently.

On the Outback drive retaining bungee and hook. It is present in current boats, so not sure what is up with your boat. Current boats have eyes that double as a bungee anchor. Just in front of the seat. The model on our showroom floor has the bungee and hook.

I don't understand the seat buckle issue you are noting. CT seats?

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Seat issue is documented here:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=53028

Seat issue made it to customers and a simple bulletin posted on hobiecat.com could have made customers aware of the issue. In addition, I had this issue and Hobie sent replacement buckles. Unfortunately, they did not check these buckles and they also rusted after a couple weeks and only a couple of uses. Finally the 3rd set I received was stainless steel and has not rusted. This is an issue where quality slipped and could have been addressed better by: 1. Notifying dealers instead of waiting for warranty claims to come in. 2. Quarantining suspect batch of buckles and inspecting or scrapping. This would have prevented me receiving a second set of inferior buckles. 3. Even better, post these potential warranty issues on hobiecat.com for customers to review.

Outback issue: I never said the bungee and hook were missing. The bungee and hook are there, just no place to attach it when not in use. It had a pad eye pre-2013 I believe, but was missing in 2013-14. Looks like it is back for 2015 from this picture. I never understood why it was removed from one model and left on the others. The only explanation is they wanted the deck flatter for the rectangular hatch and it was too expensive (or someone forgot) to add the pad eye threads back to the mold with the changes.

Ahhh.

I'm quite certain not a cost saver. That was the bigger point. The places you can "hook" those to vary by model and were not "features" really.

The rusted stainless was (as you noted) was reported here in the forums. This is the best place to find odd issues for sure. This is annoyance level / limited, not critical function related. Easily rectified.

Getting information to dealers is difficult to say the least. Having a usable source for consumers is even more difficult to manage. Information can easily be overload. What you need you can't find. What you find, you don't need. We have nothing like the sophistication of the airline or automotive industries in information reporting and retention.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Hi

I can submit for this part as part of a warranty claim? Hopefully this helps as took outback through the surf in Malibu and after 2 waves over the front had to empty water from inside the kayak.. ( this time I left the hatch liner home)..





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