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 Post subject: Turbo Fin light?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:42 pm 
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Location: Louisville, Ky
Any word on the availability of the smaller turbo fin that I read is coming out? I've heard the turbo fins described as cycling in 10th gear all the time, I can't do that kind of resistance for very long. If the turbo light is less resistance and more efficient than the standard fins I would like to try a pair.


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 Post subject: ST Fin
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:54 pm 
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Location: Oceanside, California
We have put the ST fin on hold at this time. Its not ready yet.

The ST Turbo fin is a bit more like pedaling in the mid range of gears. It is not difficult. You end up pedaling many less strokes at a slower pace.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:10 pm 
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I used turbo fins only, when I am forced to use standard fins I feel as if something is broken because there is no resistance. I tend to pedal faster wearing me out much faster. I did not notice any difference in the turbo fins when I started using them, but when I went back to standard fins I could tell the difference!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:28 pm 
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Location: Louisville, Ky
I have not tried the turbo fins yet because of the 10th gear description I've read in reviews. My main sport is cycling and from that I know a faster (low resistance) pace is more efficient and less tiring than a slow (high resistance)pace. This is very effective in cycling especially for long distances, and I assume the same for the Hobie Mirage drive. That is what I'm looking for in the ST Turbo fins.
Matt, if you need a test subject, I should be glad to help. I think Hobie should market to the cycling community, it is such a natural companion sport. Especially the bike touring community, I'm planning on doing some fairly long distance kayak tours in my Adventure which is almost a direct cross over from my bike touring.
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/loa2004


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:06 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Charleston SC
Someone should try assymetrycal fins like mounting one normal fin and one turbofin should be a funny to see the kayak rol left and right wile pedaling :lol: .

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Posts: 2416
Location: Escondido
gregw wrote:
I have not tried the turbo fins yet because of the 10th gear description I've read in reviews. My main sport is cycling and from that I know a faster (low resistance) pace is more efficient and less tiring than a slow (high resistance)pace. This is very effective in cycling especially for long distances, and I assume the same for the Hobie Mirage drive.

As a cyclist, you should be able to run the Turbofins easily at 60 to 65 CPM for extended periods (once you get used to them). It doesn't feel as you might imagine, since you're pedaling in a fluid medium rather than a hard and fast gear. So there is always some "give". At that speed, I think of the resistance as what you might get on a gentle hill -- there is still room for acceleration (you're not maxed out at all).

Aside from the size increase, the Turbofin design is more efficient than the standard fins for several reasons. So at the higher boat speeds the Turbos are still driving whereas the standard fins are starting to "feather" out. I think this more than compensates for any loss in leg efficiency due to slower CPMs.

For touring, this will dramatically increase your range; your biggest problem will be what to do with your extra time while waiting for everyone else to catch up!

Did I mention acceleration? If you need to, you can really "grip" the water with these babies -- useful in a variety of situations like the one below:
Image
Perhaps these non Turbo models would be the best of both worlds for you, but between Turbos and standards, I think you would be very comfortable with the feel and performance of the Turbos. 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:50 pm 
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I de-powered the Turbo fins for my wife and I. The Sports are too short to need the normal "high pitch". I intalled longer cross bolts, for the tensioning screw eye, and turned the center of the bolts down slightly to get an hour-glass shape. I put small rubber washers on each side of the tension screw eye, to keep the eye working in the hour-glass area. I crimped the threads at the very end of the eye bolt, to keep the knurled nuts from falling off (happened twice). I leave the nuts almost at the end.

This method allows the leech of the sail to twist much farther than normal, which makes much less pitch and very light pedalling pressure. The transition of fin pitch is much smoother (no clicking) with the addition of the thin rubber washers on each side of the eye. We really like the fins set up this way, and wouldn't go back to the stock fins for any reason!

By the way, with the stock fins, we were "comfortable" for long runs at about 2.5 mph. With my modified Turbo fins we are "comfortable" at about 3.0 mph for the same distances in the same conditions. I consider that a really good deal.

Regards, JimL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:23 pm 
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[quote="Roadrunner"]As a cyclist, you should be able to run the Turbofins easily at 60 to 65 CPM for extended periods (once you get used to them). [/quote]

I don't know about gregw, but I am also primarily a cyclist, and I would consider pedaling at 60-65 rpm on my bicycle to be "mashing" and not spinning efficiently. I prefer to bicycle in the 85-95 rpm range, although there are people who prefer an even higher rpm.

~ Nanc
Louisiana


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:12 am
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Location: Louisville, Ky
nanc wrote:
Roadrunner wrote:
As a cyclist, you should be able to run the Turbofins easily at 60 to 65 CPM for extended periods (once you get used to them).


I don't know about gregw, but I am also primarily a cyclist, and I would consider pedaling at 60-65 rpm on my bicycle to be "mashing" and not spinning efficiently. I prefer to bicycle in the 85-95 rpm range, although there are people who prefer an even higher rpm.

~ Nanc
Louisiana


My thoughts exactly!

Most people find it counter-intuitive that 90 rpm (at lower resistance) is more efficient than 60 rpm at a higher resistance. It is also easier on your knees. This is of course a generality, I know a few people that have tree trunk legs that can't easily spin at 90 rpm's, but can push a house down at 60.

So again, that's why I thought the Tubo-lite fins would be perfect, for me anyway.


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 Post subject: wtf..?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:50 pm
Posts: 461
Location: sacramento california
Just my 2 cents, as a former road racer and current recreational rider (5 days + per week @ thousands of mile per year) using the mirage drive is nothing like pedaling a bike. There are no revolutions, its all back and forth. Its more like doing alternating one legged presses in the gym on the leg press machine and therfore no spinning is ever present whatsoever..least not in my boat with a standard mirage drive. It' s more.. push.. push... one... two ..push ..push..one ..two...back and forth. If the mirage drive had and a crank and chain ring and gears to shift like a standard recumbent bike then maybe I could relate to spinning. I pedal at 80rpm to 90 rpm like most cyclists do and use turbo fins in my hobie because they are more efficient for my needs. The standard fin worked fine and the turbos work even better. Trying to maintain 4 to 5 miles an hour with the standard fins at a faster repetition does not feel as efficient as doing so with a larger turbo fins over longer distances. Im much happier with the turbo fins... less filling- taste's great..farther, faster, less effort.

-kepnutz-


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:31 am 
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Location: Orlando, Florida
Agree with Nutz...don't know why people want to compare Mirage-ing to Cycling. Other than the alternate leg press comparison, I still say it is closest to a StairMaster workout...other than the fact that you are standing on a StairMaster. Now, if you just reclined the stairmaster backwards and strapped on a seatbelt... :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:32 pm 
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I agree, as well, that pedaling a bicycle is nothing like pedaling the mirage drive. Yet, I would still prefer to pedal with a high cadence and lower resistance than I would a slower cadence with high resistance. My knees thank me, but I also feel that my quads don't tire when doing so. I have not tried the turbo fins, but I would be reluctant to buy them without first trying them out to see if they could work well for me. I do think I would be more interested in new sails with the "mid-range" gear that Matt described.

~ Nanc
Louisiana


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 Post subject: more fins
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:50 pm
Posts: 461
Location: sacramento california
Hey Y'all
I will agree that using the mirage drive is very much like riding a stair master if they made one you could use while sitting down. However I have never yet seen anyone spend four or more hours on the stair master plus they wont float for beans and would require a really long extension cord while out on the water. As for offering yet another fin-sail option I think its a great idea as not everyone has the same needs or capabilities. :wink:

When I first used my hobie mirage drive with the standard factory fins, I felt like I often had plenty of extra power in my legs to try and speed up the boat. Whenever I was kicking out a really super fast cadence to try and go a bit quicker, I only seemed to churn up more butter while the boat was still not moving through the water that much faster. In other words if I wanted to try and drive at "freeway" speeds and maintain it over a longer distance I needed some way to shift outta first gear or I was going to burn up my motor.

Where I live it can get well over one hundred degrees for weeks at a time on a regular basis from May to October. More people died this summer from the heat than did so in either of our last two major earthquakes. When out kayaking I would also routinely suffer the effects from the extreme heat , even more so while using a high cadence, whenever we took the boat out in our area. In fact many days this year we would not even go out because it was just too 'effing' hot and/or would require advance planning and about a five hour round trip drive over blistering hot asphalt to try and find a suitably cooler spot to go out with the boat for the day.

Therefore I jumped on some new turbo fins as soon as they were available in the hopes that I could slow down my motors rpm, and run a bit cooler while still being able to cruise at a higher speed. So far the fins have worked for me in that way and I will continue to use them rather than the standard ones.

No matter which fin one does eventually use, unleaded, premium or the new premium light, the top hull speeds of our hobie kayaks tend to max out at between 5 to 8 mph, depending on the model, beyond which it will be near impossible to achieve faster rates using the mirage drive pedals alone. Therefore its going to be a real personal preference issue as to which fin(or gear) would work best for ones own particular needs. I think having another choice in fins is a good way to let everyone find their own best gear and would welcome that option as long as we could try each fin out before we had to buy them. 8)
-kepnutz-


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:09 pm
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Location: New Jersey
If you're athletic or you've been pedaling a Mirage drive for a while, you will have no problem handling the ST Turbos. I noticed the difference immediately but easily accomodated the extra "stepping" power required. I've been using Mirage drives for about 7 years. I practice on a step machine in the Winter @ 60 steps per minute. I can keep that pace up steadliy for hours but, to stay with the group I generally paddle with, I have to drop it to around 40. I never use the standard fins any more, unless I expect a lot of shallow water. The Turbo's are delicate.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:13 am 
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Location: Corpus Christi Tx.
With the stock fins I always felt like I was in low gear all day, much happier with the turbos, can go just as fast at a slower pace.

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