Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:48 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:21 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:18 am
Posts: 79
So I had the great opportunity to capsize my 18 for the first time every last week. I have made sure to check the entire boat over very thoroughly since I got it. My mast is sealed and I couldn't find any leaks in the hulls with a bubble test. I bought the Hawaina Right from hobie and have it installed correctly but the line just seems to short when you go to pull on it especially when the boat is turtle. (turns out hanging from the trap tends to turn the boat over quickly) We ended up getting another line tossed to us from another boat and that worked when tied to the dolphin striker. Anyway, anyone ever actually use the Hawaiian righting system on the 18 or just take a rope and tie it off to the dolphin striker?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:11 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:10 am
Posts: 408
Location: Black Hills South Dakota
I used both, but on a nice non windy day, tip the boat over and practice then you should be able to dial in the length.

_________________
Bodhisatfa


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:35 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2591
Location: Jersey Shore
I've found that a rope tied to the dolphin striker and tossed over the hull is best. We had the Hawaiian righting system for a while and the problem is exactly as you describe. The line length is too restrictive and you're always fighting the bungee cord. I got rid of the hardware and just tied the hollow braid to the dolphin striker. For storage, I run it about 3/4 of the way back, lace it through one of the center lacings, and then bring it back forwad to tie off with a few half hitches around the dolphin striker. Its out of the way and ready to go if needed. A single line also makes it easy to use your trap harness for righting. Just wrap the line around your hook two times, hold it with your hand and lean back.

sm


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:42 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 156
Location: Bowie, MD
Sorry I can't answer your question about how long the line should be. I had the Hawaiian style righting system on my boat for many years and used it successfully many times until one day one of the small lines that tied one of the pulleys to the boat broke while trying to right the boat (rotted out). Back in the water we both went. I have just been using a length of old mainsheet tied around the dolphin striker and stuffed in the tramp pocket ever since. It takes a little longer to get the righting going because you have to throw the line over the hull but it is much simpler and more reliable.

The suggestion to practice righting in controlled conditions is a good one. You can lay your boat on its side in the grass or on the beach and work out how long you want your righting line to be. Be careful about practicing righting in non-windy conditions. It is not a good simulation of when you will actually go over. If you and your crew are on the light side, you may not be able to right the boat without some wind helping you. The only time I have ever needed outside help righting the boat was when we got blown over by a freak gust on an otherwise very light wind day. No wind to help us get it back up. Better to practice on a breezy day when other people are around to help if you have trouble. I always say "Windy enough to tip over, windy enough to right it." Learn the righting technique described in the Hobie catalog, it works.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:52 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:18 am
Posts: 79
I really don't think technique was a problem. When the boat went turtle the line was way to short to grab and then lean back . It kept all your weight forward across the tramp just to reach the line. Our other problem was that I had waxed the hulls to a nice shine and did not wear my boots. This lead to all kinds of fun sliding off the hulls and swinging into each other. I believe the hawaiin would/will work as long as the boat is not turtle.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:05 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:10 am
Posts: 408
Location: Black Hills South Dakota
I find that hollow braid with bungie in side works the best, you still need to work out the length, I use both but when sailing with crew that is to light to right the boat with both people trying to grip the single line like a mountain climber it will tire you out, especially on a windy day. With the the righting line you can put it behind you back then let the crew jump up in your chest giving you better leverage. Now then my conventional line will drag behind the boat in big air, so I carabiner it to the lacing half way back. I do this as sometimes we sail when no one else is out, or at the lake ,but the wind is howling so we just love to go bust waves.

_________________
Bodhisatfa


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:03 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 702
Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
For years, at my old club, we used the blue/white bungee righting lines.....
they are also VERY useful as 'chicken lines' on a screaming reach while on trapeze.

SRM (and others) are right that an old jib sheet or main sheet tied to the dolphin striker works best.

We would 'time' our heave-ho with wave action....
it is almost impossible to raise a H18 in 'flat' water and low winds without help from another.

I run two systems, one is the conventional dolphin striker method, as above.

The other is a line tied off UNDERNEATH the tramp, starting at the back corner of the tramp,
then it goes forward to a pulley attached to the inside lip of the hull, at the front cross bar,
then back to a pulley at the center of the tramp, (and the becket of that pulley is secured to the back of the tramp by a bungee),
then forward to another block or pulley at the front cross bar on the other hull, and back to the stern of the tramp.
Think of an 'M' or a 'W'.

email me off line at lunnjohn 'at' magma dot ca, and I'll dig up a JPEG picture if you want.

_________________
1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:29 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2591
Location: Jersey Shore
Said it before, but I'll say it again...

With those self-retracting righting lines, you will always be fighting the bungee. The Hawaiian system, the stretch right system, which ever one you pick, you will have to fight the bungee when righting the boat. With the Hawaiian system, the bungee pulls the righting line back awkwardly. With the stretch right (bungee inside the righting line), you have to pull a mountain of line until you have something firm to lean against, and then it never fully retracts and is dragging in the water the rest of the day.

Simple is best. Get 15 or 20 feet hollow braid or old mainsheet, tie it to the dolphin striker, lace it under the tramp, or put in the tramp pocket and you're good to go. It will work from any position on the hull, capsized or turtled. KISS

sm


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:47 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:18 am
Posts: 79
Thanks for all the help guys. I'm just going to leave my Hawaiin Righting style under the tramp(not hurting anything) and tie one of my old mainsheets to the dolphin striker and stuff it in the tramp pocket.
Again thanks for all the help this is why love this forum and sailing hobies......


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:01 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:14 am
Posts: 81
I've got both the blue/white bungee, stretch righting line as well as the old mainsheet round the dolphin striker. The stretch system was on the boat when I bought it, and when it's done, I won't replace it. I never use it. Really, save yourself time/money, and use the method SRM suggested. You don't have to worry about length, just have plenty available, wrap it around your harness hook, and hike out. Have your crew sit on you when hiked out for extra leverage, and she'll come right up...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:14 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 702
Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
Any comments from folks who use Highfield levers?
(A Hobie option at the base of the shrouds which allows one to 'extend' the shroud length for extra leverage).

June 2 was my first capsize in years....
[my lovely wife was driving....her first time with the spin up, and when the gust hit us and we took off like a rocket, like a good dinghy sailor, she turned into the wind. She knows better now....]

to the point - we had a LOT of difficulty righting the H18SX.... with a dolphin striker line secured to my hiking hook.... I am 180 lbs, she is approx 135 lbs, and we needed help from a power boat to lift the mast.... so I was thinking if I should invest in Highfields... a safety question.

_________________
1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:04 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 2742
Location: Kailua 96734
John Lunn wrote:
Any comments from folks who use Highfield levers?
(A Hobie option at the base of the shrouds which allows one to 'extend' the shroud length for extra leverage).

June 2 was my first capsize in years....
[my lovely wife was driving....her first time with the spin up, and when the gust hit us and we took off like a rocket, like a good dinghy sailor, she turned into the wind. She knows better now....]

to the point - we had a LOT of difficulty righting the H18SX.... with a dolphin striker line secured to my hiking hook.... I am 180 lbs, she is approx 135 lbs, and we needed help from a power boat to lift the mast.... so I was thinking if I should invest in Highfields... a safety question.
Just to update this, there's a great POV video showing a chap solo righting his 20 footer through the use of shroud extenders.

Took him under 5 minutes, and he resorted to the extenders half way in:



As easy as he made this look, the conditions were mild. He didn't have any waves or complications that could have caused him to dismast, which is the real danger.

Consensus seems to be that a righting bag is a safer, easier tool to use. But equipping a big boat with extenders seems a reasonable backup plan. Especially if one of your crew is injured during the "incident".


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:31 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:31 am
Posts: 72
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
I watched the video...... I do not think that the extensions played any major role and think that the conditions were better than ideal. Also maybe he has a well sealed mast and also maybe his weight was on his side.

My side the weather is perfect to start sailing with temperature for today at 25 deg C.

cheers

_________________
Richard Stephens
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:11 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:21 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Chilliwack, BC
re: length.. class rules require a minimum 14' line....
I have two lengths, tied to the dolphin striker, stuffed in a pocket... 1" webbing... with several loops tied in it every 2 feet or so for hand grips. I do need something with a little more weight as it's hard to throw over the hull in a breeze (which is when you mostly need it... ) Or some weight on the end of the line. Gotta figure that one out...

anyway, it's simple, quick and efficient and can be used as a tow line if necessary and tucks up out of the way. I've had to use it a few times and works well.

the other thing when righting is to make sure you're doing it correctly... best to have the boat 45deg to the wind (bows forward) so the wind can get under the sail and help push it up .. at that point, if you can get the mast head out of the water, it should come up, and with your 315# on board, it's all about leverage... :)

_________________
Paul Evenden
Image
1999 Hobie 18


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group