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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:17 am 
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Can someone can explain the H18 dagger retro kit and the dagger neoprene kit. Thanks..


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:40 am 
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This was a difference between the parts diagram and list descriptions. I fixed it now... 60309001 DAGGER WELL NEOPRENE KIT

In the late 80's we changed the structure of the dagger well. The original well had a sleeve that bonded to the deck and keel via flanges. This had leak issues, so we changed the molds so the well is part of the hull mold and the only flange connection is at the deck. This means that the opening at the bottom of the well is the dimension of the original sleeve. The neoprene takes up this "slop" fit.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:46 am 
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Matt,
my '88 H18 has the lower daggerboard well flange. this is the first I've heard of this kit and I sure would like to fix the slop down there.
is it shown somewhere on the Hobie site besides the parts diagram? I was not able to find it.

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'88 H18SE Arís


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:56 pm 
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If you have the flange... this kit is not designed for your boat. But, that being said, you could use parts of the kit to shim up the board a bit.

The kit is not pictured anywhere. It is simply 1/8" thick x 1/2" wide white neoprene material and some super glue.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:44 pm 
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Thanks for the reply Matt.
I also meant to ask what the preferred method of repairing leaks at the keel flange/well connection is... resin?

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'88 H18SE Arís


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:08 am 
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I'd use something like 3M 5200. Its just too hard to get resin up in there. The sealant is also more flexible.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:58 am 
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I've had good luck mixing a batch of epoxy and pulling a slight vacuum. I hook a vacuum pump to the drain plug. A well regulated, quick burst with a shop vac will suck the epoxy into the crack. Do it a few times until you're sure the flanges have been bonded. It's a really wet area, so make sure the glass is bone dry. I always pour a little acetone into the crack to chase away any moisture.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Hi folks. By "flanges", are you referring to the small lip you can see about 2" inside the daggerboard well from the bottom? I was thinking about trying to seal that particular area on my boat w/silicone, possibly via a long flexible tube/straw connected to my caulk gun (one person works the gun and acts as eyes from topside while the other person moves the tube end around the lip by hand from the bottom). Thank you.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:25 pm 
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Thanks for the suggestions Matt and Jeremy.
I assume that only a cleaning with acetone is suitable for the epoxy? I know the 5200 will bond.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:42 pm 
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BrianCT wrote:
Hi folks. By "flanges", are you referring to the small lip you can see about 2" inside the daggerboard well from the bottom?



Generically, flanges are flat areas whose purpose is to either strengthen a part or provide a bonding surface. So, your exhaust on a car will have a 'flange' that is used as a flat surface for bolting it to the head or another exhaust part. The flat surface of a port that sits on the deck, that you put silicone under, is a flange.

Image

I assume, calling this from memory, on the older boats the dagger board well consisted of 3 molded parts that were later bonded together. The hull, then the well itself, then the deck. So what you have is this 'flange' on each part that's used to bond the parts together. Since no glue is capable of withstanding twisting, flexing, heating and cooling indefinitely, after about 20 years or so the parts need to be glued back together. The purpose of a flange in this case is to enable the parts to be bonded together over a 4cm flat surface rather than a butt joint (or other means), which isn't very strong.

By smearing some sealant on the OUTSIDE of the crack, you're not taking advantage of the superior strength and added surface area of the flanges surface. So picture this: If you smear silicone on the .5 mm crack, there's not much material to keep the water out, whereas if you suck some glue into the 4cm wide flat surface you have basically just made a 4cm seal. And... you've basically just bonded your boat back together, which will stop a little flexing that may lead to more leaks down the road.

For well repairs like this, I'll take a dremel tool and grind out the crack a little (basically just remove a little gel coat), then suck unthickened epoxy into the crack using vacuum. Let it go off and do it again if needed. Then I'll thicken some epoxy, fill the hole if needed then usually leave it or gel it.


Hope that doesn't muddy the waters. 8)

Matt, do you have any pictures of the dagger board well flanges?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:14 pm 
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No photo...

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:03 pm 
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Here is a quick drawing that shows the difference.

Image

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:22 pm 
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I use an epoxy syringe to glue the whole sucker back together. It's a permanent fix, and pretty easy.

Image

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:36 pm 
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That oughta answer a few questions.

Image

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:14 am 
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Super helpful, gents, thanks. I'm really glad I found this site!


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