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 Post subject: Re: Life Jackets (PFD)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:45 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
As others have mentioned, to satisfy the USCG requirement the PFD must be readily accessible and wearable (I don't know if stuffed in the hulls would satisfy this), but does not have to be worn. So you could be wearing a Zhik, and have a cheap USCG approved jacket strapped to the tramp, and be in compliance if you were ever inspected. I don't know if this would satisfy any requirements during racing, however (and it would add more stuff to the tramp).

Also, for boats over 16' in length (ie, the H18), technically you are required to carry a type IV (throwable) PFD immediately available as well. If you're worried about compliance, make sure you have one of them on board.

If you happen to have wings, they make a very convenient spot to strap the vests and type IV's...

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Life Jackets (PFD)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:31 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 pm
Posts: 1665
Location: Northfield Minnesota
I don't know if its a Minnesota thing, or USCG rule, but the MN boaters handbook handed out by the DNR says my boat is supposed to carry a fire extinguisher. Plus a throwable.

Silly.


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 Post subject: Re: Life Jackets (PFD)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:33 am
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Location: Florida
In FL the extinguisher is only required if you have a kicker.

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 Post subject: Re: Life Jackets (PFD)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:48 am 
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Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
Karl Brogger wrote:
I don't know if its a Minnesota thing, or USCG rule, but the MN boaters handbook handed out by the DNR says my boat is supposed to carry a fire extinguisher. Plus a throwable.

Silly.



JSWoerner wrote:
In FL the extinguisher is only required if you have a kicker.


Must be a state thing. USCG requirements only require a fire extinguisher if there is an enclosed engine compartment or permanent fuel tank. An outboard with a portable tank does not require one.

http://content.westmarine.com/wm-img/westadvisor/articles/SafetyGearRequirements.pdf
http://www.uscgboating.org/fedreqs/default.html

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 Post subject: Re: Life Jackets (PFD)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:40 am 
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Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 7:49 am
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Location: North Carolina
Seems that each state has a variation of the CSGA rules. The throwable rule typically does not apply to catamarans that have no hard deck, hobies are soft decked. In NC any power driven boat must have an extinguisher.


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 Post subject: Re: Life Jackets (PFD)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:36 am 
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Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
ncmbm wrote:
Seems that each state has a variation of the CSGA rules. The throwable rule typically does not apply to catamarans that have no hard deck, hobies are soft decked. In NC any power driven boat must have an extinguisher.


Do you have a source for that? I've never heard that before, but it would be great to have to carry less stuff for beer-can racing!

The wording I'm seeing everywhere (although I haven't dug into any actual legislation) is "any boat 16 feet and longer (except canoes and kayaks) must also carry one throwable (type IV) device". No exclusion for soft-decked vessels, although I'd be happy to be proven wrong on this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Life Jackets (PFD)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:43 am 
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Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 7:49 am
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Location: North Carolina
Its going to vary from state to state. You must carefully examine wind powered vessels and keep motorized vessels seperately. Jet skis have yet another set of rules.
So you have personal watercraft(ie: jetskis), wind powered vessels and motorized vessels. And length applies in some states, others don't specify.

In NC for example, a sailboat 18' or longer must be registered has always been the rule. Recently they added 16' or longer. In SC the rules are totally different and my 18' boat need not be registered, the trailer either. USCG is too broad to follow, you need to read what your state says and understand how they define your boat. I have been hassled by the police in the past trying to make me adhere to personal watercraft rules, my H18 is a vessel, not a personal watercraft. Sometimes you have to educate the man!


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 Post subject: Re: Life Jackets (PFD)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:58 am 
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Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
I agree, regulations vary widely state by state for many things, and you need to educate yourself about state (and even local) laws not just the federal ones. However, while states can enforce stricter requirements beyond what the USCG requires, they cannot loosen requirements (federal laws always take precedence over state/local). So while the state can require you to carry a fire extinguisher when the Coast Guard does not, or to register your boat, but they CANNOT exempt you from the USCG (federal) requirement to carry a throwable.

If you get stopped/inspected by a state or local cop, they may or may not follow the full USCG requirements, but if you get inspected by the Coast Guard and don't have the throwable, you'll get a citation regardless of what the state law is in NC.

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 Post subject: Re: Life Jackets (PFD)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 7:49 am
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Location: North Carolina
I can't find it anywhere but I remember when the Hobies stopped carrying throwables at regattas. Most regattas do require you to wear your pfd. The boats are not condusive to carrying that type of flotation equipment. Especially so with the ocean sailors. I haven't seen a throwable on a Hobie in 15yrs or better, racing or cruising. I also never see the coasties where I sail so I will not be adding one any time soon! Can't imagine the headaches a stupid cushion would create on my deck while launching the spin!!!!

I even take my pfd off between starts, I hate to wear them. If I die while sailing it was meant to be!! And your body floats in the salty, another good reason not to lake sail.


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 Post subject: Re: Life Jackets (PFD)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:38 pm
Posts: 225
Location: Roswell, GA - USA
In GA I need to have the throwable and the DNR will ticket you for not having one. The life jackets need to be accessable (in the hulls would not qualify). I have some carabiners tied to the front of the hiking straps and use them to hook onto the throwable cushion, life jackets if I am not wearing them, a dry bag and shoes etc. I then put the stuff under the hiking straps to keep it from moving around as much but when I hit waves with the mesh tramp they get blown around. This does take up space on the tramp but I have wings on my H18 that gives me more space.

Many years ago I used to windsurf and the DNR tried to enforce life jackets and throwable devices on the windsurfers. You do not want to wear a pfd on a windsurfer because of entrapment under the sail and the windsurfer itself is a throwable device that can not sink (foam filled). We actually lobbied the state legislature (gave on the water demos etc) and got the GA state laws changed!


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 Post subject: Re: Life Jackets (PFD)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:45 pm
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Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
ncmbm wrote:
I can't find it anywhere but I remember when the Hobies stopped carrying throwables at regattas. Most regattas do require you to wear your pfd. The boats are not condusive to carrying that type of flotation equipment. Especially so with the ocean sailors. I haven't seen a throwable on a Hobie in 15yrs or better, racing or cruising. I also never see the coasties where I sail so I will not be adding one any time soon! Can't imagine the headaches a stupid cushion would create on my deck while launching the spin!!!!

I even take my pfd off between starts, I hate to wear them. If I die while sailing it was meant to be!! And your body floats in the salty, another good reason not to lake sail.


I agree, at times the throwable is in the way on a Hobie, although they also make a good pillow for the crew when the wind shuts off. Whether or not you carry one on your boat based on the likelihood of needing it/being inspected is entirely your decision/business. However, many people do not comply with that part of the carriage requirements solely because they are not aware of it.

The point I was trying to make originally was merely that, if someone is concerned about buying the Zhik life jacket because it won't fulfill the USCG PFD requirement, they should also make sure they have a throwable onboard.

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 Post subject: Re: Life Jackets (PFD)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:16 am 
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well i know of at least 2 people who have bought one and both have come here and tried to sell it lol!

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 Post subject: Re: Life Jackets (PFD)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:18 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:46 pm
Posts: 235
Location: Greenville SC
Are those people still trying to sell?

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