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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:48 am
Posts: 111
Location: Finger Lakes, Western NY
Hey Guys,

I've been pondering this for a while, and I'm curious what different people have come up with for H18 righting systems. There's quite a few threads on the subject in the H16 forum, but the H18 is a whole different animal, since the tramp isn't raised. I like the sounds of a hawaiian type system that doubles as righting line and trap "sissy" line (we've never trapped before, so it'd be handy to have while we're getting used to it). I've come up with a few different schemes with bungies, rings (I think just about any rig needs the SS rings tied to the daggerboard bungie hole just forward of the front crossbar), etc, but none seem to quite do the trick. I'm only 5'9", so I don't think I'd be able to reach up and over the top pontoon to grab the righting line if it's rigged on the outside (or would I be able to? Any input from those with experience would be great), but if it's rigged on the inside/underneath, it's no good as a safety line. My backup plan is to rig a "safety line only", and use the minimalist approach for righting (knotted rope tied to dolphin striker post and thrown over upper hull).

So, what do you all use? Any and all thoughts are welcome! And thanks again, as always. For you old timers, how did you learn any of this stuff without the internet??? I suppose you racers have more contact with fellow Hobie sailors than I do.

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-Bill

Conesus Lake, NY
1976 Hobie 14


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 Post subject: Righting lines
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:40 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9328
Location: Oceanside, California
I think you have the right idea. Seperate lines for righting and trap safety. You can do the hawaiian or snap back under the tramp just for righting. Easier to use when righting for sure. The 15' line is ok, but harder for two crew to hold on to at one time.

Yep, really easier these days with the internet. Good thing the fleets and racing were so strong back in-the-day... that is where we all learned this stuff before.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: H18 Righting lines
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 720
Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
For club boats, (check us out at www.kanatasailing.com), we use the Hobie blue and white bungee EasiRite system #30106 page 18. It is also useful as a Safety Line. Bowline the ends to the rudder pins, lead it around the outside of the hulls through the SS rings, and centred through the dolphin striker post. Tough to reach if you are less than 6 ft. Sometimes you have to 'dip' the stern a bit, grab the end, slide your hand along etc. Also tensioning can be an issue on a club boat, where some members have longer arms than others. Obtaining a 'balanced lift' is also an issue when more than one person hauls away.

On my personal 1988 H18, there is a 'racing rig' righting line. Sort of an Easy Up system, see #30102 Page 18. Previous owner drilled 4 holes through the inner lip, under the crossbeams, attached shackles, then put pulleys on the front shackles. So the loop runs from a knot in the rear corner, to a front pulley, to a non-shackled pulley which is secured by a light bungee cord to the tramp just ahead of the traveller, back to a front pulley, back to another knot at a rear shackle. All on the inside. Figure M. Neat, light and elegant. That means we have no 'safety line', but then we don't sail that aggresively. More like Capt Fatty Goodlander.

When we do trapeze training at the Club, and the wind is high or the weather is rough, we tend to 'trail' a length of 35' line behind the boat until our students 'get their feet'. That's the closest we get to a safety line.

Last Oct 22, air temp around 46F, with windchill down to 32F, Andre and I were out in 15 mph gusting 25, and my trap ring became undone. (Don't ask.) I was gone in a flash, but managed to hold on to the jib sheet, which was my safety line. Does that work for you?

For this next summer, I plan to attach foot straps # 1241, page 17, eight inches behind the rear cross bar. Then either from that, or from another hole, set up a chicken line for trapping. What do you do for a chicken line?

Email me privately if you wish at lunnjohn@magma.ca - if we can find the time, this summer we'd like to trailer down to Brewerton and the other finger lakes, and I would enjoy sailing with you and your fleet.

Cheers and good winds.

_________________
1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:48 am
Posts: 111
Location: Finger Lakes, Western NY
I like the sounds of your "Figure M" rig - very neat and tidy, functional, but out of the way when you don't need it. I think I'm going to do something similar, but tie onto the rudder pins in the rear and use the SS rings up front (I'd like to avoid drilling holes in my boat if I can).

My original idea for the chicken line was very similar to the "easy rite" rig. I was going to tie a line onto the rudder pins on each side, bring it up along the outiside and through the SS ring in front of the crossbar, then tie each line onto one end of ~3 ft. of bungee. When out on the wire, grab the line and the bungee in front of the crossbar will stretch, allowing the line to come away from the boat with you. There ought to be a hard stop where the knot between the line and bungee hit the SS ring, so you can keep from falling forwards or backwards.

I'm not sure how practical it is though, as I"ll need one hand for the tiller, one hand for the mainsheet, and that doesn't leave any hands to hold onto the chicken line.

My latest idea for a chicken line (I stole this from a post in the Tiger forum the other day) is to tie a 1/4" or so line to the rudder pins, and tie a snap clip to the other end (like what you'd find on the end of a dog leash). Perhaps utilize a rolling hitch or something similar so that length can be adjusted. When you go out on the wire, clip the snap clip onto your dogbone somewhere, on your harness, on the wire - wherever you like. Now you have a hands-free chicken line to keep you from flying forwards. When you come back in, simply clip the snap ring onto the bungee at the bottom of the trap adjuster line so it's down and out of the way.

What do you think? Also, with the "Figure M" rig, how hard is it to get the line length and bungee tension "just right"? Is it much different if there's one or two people up on the pontoon righting the boat?

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-Bill

Conesus Lake, NY
1976 Hobie 14


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 Post subject: Chicken Line
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 720
Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
Go to the Hobie Tiger/F18 section of the Forum. See the Post of Jan 19 re chicken lines. The guru from Australia has it right.

1. NEVER attach a chicken line to your own 'hook', always to the dogbone or trapeze ring.

2. See his diagram - I don't know if this will work, but I plan to attach bungee cords to the Deadeye at the back of the rear crossbeam, one for port, one for starboard, and lead them under the tramp/aft lacing strip, and exiting on top of the hulls at the point where the lacing strip and the left/right halves of the tramp meet. End the bungees with a small pulley.

3. Tie the end of the chicken line to the rudder pins, thread the lines though the pulleys, and the end of the line is tied to a hook, (see shockcord hooks page 38 of the manual, the kind often seen on the daggerboard bungees). It is this hook that will clip to the trapeze ring/dogbone. Stay away from metal hooks or dog leashes.

4. I have no idea whether the geometry of the tensioning will work out, I can only answer that once we get back onto Lac des Chesnes in late May.
My thinking is that the bungee will retract the hook and c-line under the tramp when not in use.

5. I like your idea of clipping the c-line to the trap adjuster line, and that may be simpler and easier. Let's keep in touch, and feel free to email me privately at the link above.

6. Drilling holes into the lip of the boat is not a big deal. Remember to drill them 1/32" oversize, then paste a thin layer of epoxy to protect the raw fibreglass, wait for it to dry, and you are good to go. Did this on a club boat 12 years ago, and still 100% fine.

7. If you can wait until Spring, (boat is under 20" of snow and ice right now,) I can email you pictures of the M-rig righting set up. How easy it is to use, I do not know, perhaps others on this Forum have had more experience at it.

Good winds and enjoy your winter projects.

cheers

_________________
1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:45 am
Posts: 759
Location: Clinton Lake Lawrence, KS
Bill,

The chicken line setup is "intended" for use only by the crew when on a broad reach or downwind run (and in the case of the F18, with spinnaker hoisted). The skipper is as far back on the tramp as possible and crew stradeling him/her on the trapeze wire.

Why doesn't the driver have a chicken line? Because he should "never abandon ship for any reason" :P

In the case of a sloop rig (no spi) boat where you may be double trapped on a beam reach (trying to set speed records :twisted: ) the addition of something for the skipper would be advantageous. Let us know how your double chicken wire works out.

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hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297


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 Post subject: Righting system
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:21 am
Posts: 3
Location: Louisville, Ky
I have used a modification of the M figure righting system for several years and have never had any problems righting, as long as I had another person along. The extra line that pays out as you stretch the elastic cord makes a big difference in the leverage you get in righting the boat. The only time we couldn't get it righted was when we hadn't released the main sheet and tried to lift about 400 additional pounds of water along with the boat. ;>)

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The two most abundant elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity.


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