Hobie Cat Forums

Is there a trick to removing the rudder adjusters from the tiller crossbar? Mine were secured with bolts and after removing the bolts (one came out clean and the other one broke off inside the crossbar) the adjusters still don't want to budge. Any suggestions?

Also, if I end up having to purchase new adjusters, do these differ from the connectors on the end of the tiller tubes (i.e., the hardware they marry up to)?

Thanks guys.

_________________
Irie, mon....
'82 Hobie 18 SE with '85 Nationals Prism (White) sails
'73 Laser HID# 3463

Heat and persuasion. Gentle bangs with a deadblow hammer or a block of wood should break them loose.

If you want new-er ones, let me know. I've got a bunch of them. They're all the same.

I've replaced all of mine with the Hobie 20 style connectors. They really are the only way to go.

Thanks very much, I got them both out. Embarrassing admission, but the reason I hesitated using force was I had no idea the OEM Hobie adjusters were made of metal! See, I have two tiller bars and the one I used last season has plastic aftermarket adjusters like the ones in the picture below. I just never looked closely enough at the Hobie ones. Anyways, I plan on swapping tiller bars this season b/c the plastic adjusters are coming loose (plus that bar is heavily corroded).....

_________________
Irie, mon....
'82 Hobie 18 SE with '85 Nationals Prism (White) sails
'73 Laser HID# 3463

Those are KISME TLCs (Tiller Linkage Connectors). They were the hottest thing before the Hobie 20-style connectors.

However, their weakness was the fore/aft slop they had without the rubber washers (which were not included with them). That, and the nasty habit of the stud bolt shearing off, rendering a $70 tiller connector useless.

Thanks for the information. There is a minor issue with slop on mine and I'm not sure how to resolve it. I believe the solution is to run an ice pick or similar through the hole in the stud bolt to keep it stationary while tightening the nut (hole is burried behind the washers - perhaps the cause of the breakages?). Does that sound about right?

_________________
Irie, mon....
'82 Hobie 18 SE with '85 Nationals Prism (White) sails
'73 Laser HID# 3463

That's exactly how to break one.

The problem is not with the TLC, but with the end cap on the tiller arm - the hole is too big. So even though the nut on the TLC is tightened right down to the shoulder of the stud, there's still slop. Solution is to replace the end cap.

Best solution is to go to the H20 style connectors, but that's a significantly more expensive solution.

I have an 84 H18 with the older style rudders and TLCs. The TLCs are old and worn. Will the H20 style fit on my older OE system? I was looking at the H20 parts guide it looks like I'll need to take out and reinstall the rivets?

Do you know about how much they cost?

Thank you.

_________________
1984 Hobie 18

Yup, you'll have to rivet the H20 ones in
cost is ~ $130

_________________
Sheet In...Max Out
www.fleet297.org
sailflatlands at gmail dot com

IMO, the biggest benefit of the H20 system is the ability to easily remove the rudders for trailering. If you don't remove your rudders for trailering, then the stock system (the nut and bolt with two contoured spacers and a spring) works fine and is about 10% the cost of the H20 system. I haven't found the 20 system to be 10 times better, it still has some slop in the connection.

sm

For what it's worth, I decided to stick with the KISME TLCs for now. I managed to remove the nuts from the stud bolts and added an additional rubber washer to help tighten things up. Definitely an improvement, but we'll have to see how they hold up. I then took the entire tiller assembly apart and rebuilt it. I had a LOT of slop in the tiller arm-to-upper casting connectors (as well as the end caps) so I drilled out all of the old rivets, re-riveted and shimmed. For shims I followed the advise of somebody on this board and cut up an old milk jug to fill all of the voids in the rudder arms. Thank you - HUGE difference!! To finish everything off I sanded everything down (castings, arms, tiller bar, etc.), thoroughly cleaned, and sprayed on a few coats of Rustoleum High Heat flat black from a rattle can. It's the paint you see marketed at The Home Depot to refinish gas grills. Again, we'll have to see how it holds up but I'm very happy with the end result.

_________________
Irie, mon....
'82 Hobie 18 SE with '85 Nationals Prism (White) sails
'73 Laser HID# 3463

The tools I use to adjust my KISME Tiller connectors is either a "Tappett" wench ... or "Neddlenose" Visegrips.

A "Tappett" wench is a special wench for adjusting valves in car motors when they have solid lifters .... they are extra thin ... (and maybe alittle longer) ... they are difficult to find but can be ordered from the better tool suppliers.

Or you can just grind/file down a regular open-end wench (in the correct size) to make it thinner ... just don't overheat (blue color) it as you will remove the strength/temper of the wench. It takes longer but I would lean to the file method since it is less likely to overheat the material.

I think I use 3-4 "Hose Washers" /side ..... to remove the slop.

_________________
HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

I like that I am hearing the H20 system is easy to remove for storing the rudders. Trying to find that bolt in the cross bar is a PITA. How is the KISME system for easy on easy off?

My other concern, and it may be because I have not seen another 18 close enough to compare - but there is about 2-3" of exposed rudder adjuster exposed on each end of my tiller cross bar in order to make the rudders align. Seems like a lot to me - so I am concerned if I will get that much adjustment with the H20 or KISME system. Key for me is ease of breaking down so I can remove the rudders for trailering.

Just found this info comparing all 3 systems....

http://home1.gte.net/res07lm8/hobie/archives/v1-i10/feature1.htm

_________________
1984 Hobie 18

With both the KISME Tiller Connectors and the H20 Tiller Connectors you can remove the rudders for trailering and/or storage in a sailbox.

Remember you can do more damage to the condition of a rudder blade laying flat in a sailbox if it is not protected .... (not the trailing edges but the flat surfaces which is were the most drag can be caused ...)

W/ the KISME Connecters you can use a "moving blanket/pad" to wrap the rudder system up in ... or you can use "rudder covers. Now for years I trailered w/ my rudder sysytem on the boat w/ rudder covers and tiller arms tied up to the rear crossbar .... I never had any issues.

Now several years ago I had to redo my "EPOv1's since the sun (UV exposure) was degrading the tops of the rudder blades were the covers didn't cover .... and I got to adding up the value/cost of the castings and blades of the rudder system (... you can't even get the EPOv1's anymore if you need them, and EPOv2's are BIG $$$$$'s) ... and I realized that I was leaving exposed some very serious $$$$$'s .....

So I decided that I wanted to keep my rudder system in my sailbox from then on ... ( for both safety and UV Exposure ...), at first I just took the whole system, wrapped in a "moving pad" (my rudder covers had fallen apart by then) and placed it in my sailbox. I wasn't happy w/ the amount of room reguired, how you need to fold one of the arms in the opposite direction so it would lay flat .... and the amount of time required to install/wrap/remove the rudder system. Therefore I "upgraded" to the H20 Connector System w/ new rudder covers .... and I'm very happy w/ it. It was a little expensive but I can store my rudder system in my sailbox w/ a minimum of room .... and quickly install/remove the rudder system as required. It stays in adjustment and I haven't had any issues.

Now I do have a back-up rudder system (complete) that still uses the KISME Connectors .... but since the KISME Connectors do work well and currently that system is currently stored in my garage, I haven't upgraded that system.

Both work well .... maybe I'm just a little TOO protective of my EPOv1's ...

_________________
HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

Thank you for the background Mr. Murphey. I have just refinished my EPOv1's as well. That, along with worn out OE TLCs, is making me think of what to next.

I will ask my local Hobie dealer about the cost of the H20 system. I do like keeping the blades in my box or the back of the SUV wrapped up. I may have to breakdown and get some covers. Money, money, money.......

_________________
1984 Hobie 18

The name is "Harry" ....

Murray's make a really nice set of rudder covers .... w/ red tips for when trailering w/ the rudder system still installed in the boat ...

....but ...

... if you are going to store them in your sailbow and you know someone who can operate a sewing machine you can purchase "fleece" material (in bulk) at a fabric store and make your own .... cheap and simple ..... use "fleece" or some other similar material that does not retain moisture as you want the covers to be dry as possible .....

I would make a daggerboard bag at the same time also .... don't forget a middle divider to seperate the two boards so they can't rub together ...

_________________
HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11