Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:54 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Hobie SX Questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:58 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:45 pm
Posts: 137
Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
Hi Everyone,
I'm looking at purchasing a 1990 18SX at the moment- the boat is in need of a little work, but everything appears to be structurally sound, which is good, and as far as I can tell most of the major things have been taken care of

Anything specific I should be looking for with an SX? Based on my research on the forum, a 1990 18 had the new style plastic rudder cams, crossbar reinforcements/anchors, and shroud anchors installed from the factory. Based on my inspection of the boat, this appears to be the case (I'm assuming the new anchors are the ones shown in the current parts catalog?). Are all of the rudder castings with the black plastic cams the new style? the black rudders are the EPO ones, correct?

I know the daggerboard trunks were a separate piece in some of the earlier boats, and in later boats were molded into the hull. Does anyone know what year was the cutoff for this change?

Other than the normal condition of the fittings and surrounding fiberglass, particularly around the wings, is there anything in particular to look for on an SX as opposed to an SE?

Thanks in advance for your help, and if it winds up working out with this boat, I'm sure I'll have many more questions as I go! I sailed an 18 when I was younger (actually, this exact 18, but thats another story), and am looking forward to sailing one again!

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hobie SX Questions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:31 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:32 am
Posts: 257
An SX is fun because:
- may have a spinnaker w/o hurting your handicap (.1 of a point) if you race
- just a bit bigger mast, always cool
- fancy cut mylar sails
- enormous wings

But an SX could be a hassle because the rigging isn't interchangable with other hobie 18s....
- shrouds are longer
- different mast and comptip
- sails are bigger

Everything else is interchangable... hulls, crossbars, blocks, etc, etc.

- I'd check that the comptip is in good shape, the wings are in good shape too.
- The mylar sails like to delaminate, so if they look like they're about to start peeling, they're pretty much at the end of their life.
- Check under the rear crossbar, inboard by the hull on each side, for corrosion and stress cracks. The wings put more load there.
- Check inside the hulls to see that there's an extra patch of fiberglass where those crossbar/hull reenforcement anchor plates are.
- rudders, put your knee into it and see if it will deflect a bit (don't stress it on the boat and pressure the rudder pin..)... no deflect prob means they're EPOs.
- otherwise the issues w/the SX are same as the SE.... the wings and the rigging/sails make it an SX.
Enjoy your new old boat!
-Rob


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hobie SX Questions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:21 am 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4610
Location: Detroit, MI
The real weakness of the original SX was the sails. I'd be very surprised if the original sails were in good, sailable condition 21 years on. Once they start to delaminate, they're done. And they delaminated rather quickly - within a few years of moderate use.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hobie SX Questions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:30 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 1088
Location: Oakland, CA
Speaking of sails, the Hobie catalog lists an SX main sail for $1521, and the chance of finding a used SX main in good condition is pretty slim. so if the boat you're considering needs sails due to delamination then factor that into your offer.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hobie SX Questions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:35 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:45 pm
Posts: 137
Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
Everyone,
Thanks for all your feedback. Among other things, this boat includes a new set of sails with only 1 season on them (the original ones are there too, and are completely shot as you all guessed).

The seller and I were able to reach an agreement on price, so barring something unforeseen, I will be buying this boat, and am very excited! Unfortunately, my work schedule is going to prevent me from launching the boat this season, but that will give me some time to fix it up and make any upgrades i need.

I'm sure I'll have lots more questions once I start working on the boat.
Steve

_________________
1990 Hobie 18SX #2077


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hobie SX Questions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:18 am 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4610
Location: Detroit, MI
Skipshot wrote:
Speaking of sails, the Hobie catalog lists an SX main sail for $1521, and the chance of finding a used SX main in good condition is pretty slim. so if the boat you're considering needs sails due to delamination then factor that into your offer.
I will also say that the material being used now for Hobie brand sails is much more durable than previously, while still maintaining the original construction (one side Mylar/one side Dacron taffeta).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hobie SX Questions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:29 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:14 am
Posts: 81
MBounds wrote:
Skipshot wrote:
Speaking of sails, the Hobie catalog lists an SX main sail for $1521, and the chance of finding a used SX main in good condition is pretty slim. so if the boat you're considering needs sails due to delamination then factor that into your offer.
I will also say that the material being used now for Hobie brand sails is much more durable than previously, while still maintaining the original construction (one side Mylar/one side Dacron taffeta).


I'm in that situation right now...original sails are blown out, and I'm on the hunt for a used set. I've about given up on that, and am probably going to bite the bullet and get a new set from somewhere.

Can you tell me more about the new construction vs the original? I'd really like to keep the stock look and feel, but havent' heard anything but terrible things about Hobie mylar.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hobie SX Questions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:23 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 1088
Location: Oakland, CA
flaco wrote:
Can you tell me more about the new construction vs the original? I'd really like to keep the stock look and feel, but havent' heard anything but terrible things about Hobie mylar.
I can't say much about the new SX sails from Hobie, but if you want to keep the stock look and feel then order from Hobie. If you're not going to race the boat then get anything you like. Even if you decide to race with a stock sail you'll need to confer with the local 18 fleet to get their OK to race an SX with SE boats. They likely will let you, but if you start winning regattas and messing with their points then you'll probably be politely asked not to race.

It's also possible to use a Tiger main sail, and if that interests you then search the forum for how to do it since it takes a minor modification, but I don't know what.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hobie SX Questions
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:10 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 7:49 am
Posts: 1073
Location: North Carolina
If Hobie has any stock on SX mains they will be dacron or pentex, not mylar.

The Tiger main is a perfect fit for the SX mast. You need to cut the hook off the sail head to use it on the SX. Pre-bending your mast will make a Tiger sail fit properly.

At minimum buy a squaretop, there is no legitimate reason to keep a pin head main sail. Squaretop is faster and more efficient. Pentex cloth would be my suggestion but any polymer based sailcloth would work fine, even the newer dacron is nice.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hobie SX Questions
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:54 pm 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4610
Location: Detroit, MI
ncmbm wrote:
If Hobie has any stock on SX mains they will be dacron or pentex, not mylar.
The stock 18SX sails are the same material as the 17's sails - they're Mylar on one side and a Dacron taffeta on the other, with Dacron reinforcements at the corners.

"Pentex" sails are polyethylene naphthalate fibers (known by Honeywell's trademark Pentex®) laminated between Mylar films. Dacron® and Mylar® are DuPont trademarks.

Dacron and Mylar are the same material (polyethylene terephthalate), but one is spun fiber and the other an extruded and stretched film.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hobie SX Questions
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:31 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 6:10 pm
Posts: 178
Location: Folsom, CA
Just a kind moot point, but one non the less - the comp tip is the same as on a 18 standard as I recall... mine was converted to an SX by using my uncut all aluminum std mast, only when we cut it for the comp tip it was cut 18" longer... and of course we had to install all the proper diamond wires, mast tang etc at their new locations...

Interesting about the Tiger main sail idea... my SX is blown out (and the colors horrible) A Tiger main will be a lot easier to come by...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hobie SX Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:00 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 7:49 am
Posts: 1073
Location: North Carolina
MBounds wrote:
ncmbm wrote:
If Hobie has any stock on SX mains they will be dacron or pentex, not mylar.
The stock 18SX sails are the same material as the 17's sails - they're Mylar on one side and a Dacron taffeta on the other, with Dacron reinforcements at the corners.

"Pentex" sails are polyethylene naphthalate fibers (known by Honeywell's trademark Pentex®) laminated between Mylar films. Dacron® and Mylar® are DuPont trademarks.

Dacron and Mylar are the same material (polyethylene terephthalate), but one is spun fiber and the other an extruded and stretched film.

Why would one wish to purchase a sail that is mylar/dacron laminate with all the issues that are known with that construction type?
The newer dacron fabric is much improved from the original but the cloth weight available is not as good as the older white Hobie dacron, white and colored is the same basic weight now.
I would seriously be surprised if the Hobie loft even had a SX sail available, they were unable to source a simple 18SE jib for me 2 years ago.
SX races open in most areas so why not run the fastest sails available?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hobie SX Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:04 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 685
Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
I can barely pronounce some of those technical names of the sailcloth....and I prefer not to debate what is class legal, legal for racing etc.

What I will say is that my old SX18 sails were blown out, so I ordered a squarehead set of Pentex from Chip. (Go to www.whirlwindsails.com, go to Photo's, the pattern is the sixth picture). Because we live in Canada, delivery was 'interesting'. So tomorrow, I will mount the new Pentex/mylar sails, and once they are organized, I'll give you a report on how they perform. They sure look great! Stand by.....news to follow.....

_________________
1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hobie SX Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:48 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 7:49 am
Posts: 1073
Location: North Carolina
John you are gonna love the squaretop. I am sending mine back to Chip to have it resized for a SE mast. I am sick of the comptip, it just bites!!! I need a new one but the price is rediculous!

I would suggest you increase downhaul to control the sail if you haven't allready, 8:1 works best with dual exit blocks. I used the Tiger heart shackle to hang multiple blocks from the sail.

You will feel the boat heal forward in puffs with a squaretop that you don't feel with a pinhead, its a little odd at first. The boat will power up, heal and then squirt forward fast. Once you feel it a couple times you will get used to it. Also, look at the top and make sure it stays full, mine was a little flat and Chip altered it. I think he adds the fullness to all of them now.

What battens did you get?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hobie SX Questions
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:06 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 685
Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
Thanks Mike. Tell me, is your jib pentex as well, and how 'comfortable' are the pentex jibs when it comes to furling? I am so used to older cloth, that is soft and flexible.....or, do I have to take down and put up the jib each time?

BTW, last year, I bought a 5 - 1 downhaul from CentralMichiganSailor, what a difference, love it, couldn't live without one of those useful gadgets. Will that give enough power in terms of the downhaul issues?

_________________
1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group