Hobie Forums :: View topic - Wit's end on Rudder Alignment

I'm pretty sure the tiller arms for the original 18 rudder system are not angled inward. If they are, it's very minimal - not like the new system which is very pronounced.

sm

I wonder if, because my tiller adjustments are fully extended, there is a tiller cross bar that should go with the old system?? My bar is 75".

75" tiller cross bar, one dead straight tiller arm, one slightly bent tiller arm. No way to make the rudders paralell. Got to be mismatched.

Will need to find upper castings and arm(s) that fit or just arms if they will work with either casting. Man, I think this must be some kind of FrankenHobie!!

What you really need is a longer tiller crossbar.

This is getting frustrating. Today my son wore his arm out holding the tiller.

Since I got the boat last year I have always felt something was wrong with my tiller arms/rudder alignment.

I have swapped the upper castings/arms to see if they were reversed, to no avail. I have the older castings. With both of my rudder adjusters fully extended the distance between the aft edge of my rudders (in the down position) is 81 1/4", the forward edge is 80 3/4". A 1/2" difference may create the toe in I have heard spoken of here but it makes no sense that both of my tiller adjusters are fully extended and I am still a 1/2" short of being able to make them paralell.

If I "eyeball" my tiller arms from the rear looking forward (as the rudders are down) one arm has only an extremely slight bend to the middle of the boat. The other is dead straight. I thought maybe the tiller cross bar was short but have compared it to aonther's and they are the same.

Can you see a noticeable bend in both of your tiller arms?? Any thoughts?

fill the bolt pivot hole, reposition the blade to its maximum where the leading edge touched the front of the stock,

Author:	Sailinagin [ Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Wit's end on Rudder Alignment
Since I got the boat last year I have always felt something was wrong with my tiller arms/rudder alignment. I have swapped the upper castings/arms to see if they were reversed, to no avail. I have the older castings. With both of my rudder adjusters fully extended the distance between the aft edge of my rudders (in the down position) is 81 1/4", the forward edge is 80 3/4". A 1/2" difference may create the toe in I have heard spoken of here but it makes no sense that both of my tiller adjusters are fully extended and I am still a 1/2" short of being able to make them paralell. If I "eyeball" my tiller arms from the rear looking forward (as the rudders are down) one arm has only an extremely slight bend to the middle of the boat. The other is dead straight. I thought maybe the tiller cross bar was short but have compared it to aonther's and they are the same. Can you see a noticeable bend in both of your tiller arms?? Any thoughts?

Author:	ncmbm [ Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wit's end on Rudder Alignment
Yea, both arms bend in slightly. You may have an incorrect arm, bending it straight would not be easy. You might also want to consider upgrading to the miracle 20 tiller bar attachments. Much easier to adjust in and out on the fly.

Author:	Sailinagin [ Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wit's end on Rudder Alignment
Yes, I found a pair of the H20 at my local Hobie dealer for $75. A good deal. But it did not look like there was enough adjustment with them to help with my (I think messed up) tiller arms. Ok, I put a straight edge on the arms and my port arm bends in slightly - deflects about 1/2" from the tip to the entry point of the casting. My starboard arm is straight as an arrow. You are right it looks very difficult to bend or even attempt to reset the rivets. I cannot tell which is off - the casting or the arm. Either way I think I'll have to get an upper casting/arm assembly.

Author:	OlderBowman [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wit's end on Rudder Alignment
do you know if the rudder arm is original? is your boat secondhand? there are some instances of broken-bent-damaged rudder tubes being fixed with a piece of straight tube. you should replace the straight piece with a matching bent tube, then all you adjustment problems should be solved.

Author:	srm [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wit's end on Rudder Alignment
I'm pretty sure the tiller arms for the original 18 rudder system are not angled inward. If they are, it's very minimal - not like the new system which is very pronounced. sm

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Author:	Sailinagin [ Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wit's end on Rudder Alignment
srm wrote: I'm pretty sure the tiller arms for the original 18 rudder system are not angled inward. If they are, it's very minimal - not like the new system which is very pronounced. sm The port side is angled about 1/2"-3/4" from the casting to the tip of the arm. Starboard side is dead straight. I wonder if, because my tiller adjustments are fully extended, there is a tiller cross bar that should go with the old system?? My bar is 75". Also, my port arm is black, starboard is either clear of faded. Which may indicate it is older. Plus I am the 3rd or 4th owner so not likely OE arm(s).

Author:	pknapp66 [ Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wit's end on Rudder Alignment
Go to murrays or mariner and look at the Hobie catalog. says 1986 and older tiller tube bent. 1987 and newer straight.

Author:	srm [ Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wit's end on Rudder Alignment
Sailinagin wrote: I wonder if, because my tiller adjustments are fully extended, there is a tiller cross bar that should go with the old system?? My bar is 75". That seems like the most likely scenario. I've got a boat with the old style rudder system, and in looking at it, I've never noticed any significant inward bend. On the new system, the inward angle of the tiller is very pronounced. So it would make sense that if someone replaced the tiller crossbar with one intended to be used on the new system, it would be too short for the old system. sm

Author:	Sailinagin [ Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wit's end on Rudder Alignment
Thank you for the help. Hopefully Matt will chime in here. I think I must have mismatched parts. This is getting frustrating. Today my son wore his arm out holding the tiller. 75" tiller cross bar, one dead straight tiller arm, one slightly bent tiller arm. No way to make the rudders paralell. Got to be mismatched. Will need to find upper castings and arm(s) that fit or just arms if they will work with either casting. Man, I think this must be some kind of FrankenHobie!!

Author:	MBounds [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wit's end on Rudder Alignment
Sailinagin wrote: 75" tiller cross bar, one dead straight tiller arm, one slightly bent tiller arm. No way to make the rudders paralell. Got to be mismatched. Will need to find upper castings and arm(s) that fit or just arms if they will work with either casting. Man, I think this must be some kind of FrankenHobie!! What you really need is a longer tiller crossbar. Mis-aligned rudders don't necessarily create a lot of helm. They cause handling issues, like rudder ventilation and stall at moderate speeds.

Author:	Sailinagin [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wit's end on Rudder Alignment
Quote: What you really need is a longer tiller crossbar. Yes, I would agree. Are there different length bars for the 18 over the different model years or do I need something custom?

Author:	mmiller [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wit's end on Rudder Alignment
Quote: This is getting frustrating. Today my son wore his arm out holding the tiller. Tiller crossbar length / rudder toe-in alignment should not cause significant load / weather helm. I suspect rudder rake / cam locking issues is a bigger problem. For toe-in issues you could simply bend the tiller arms a small amount to get closer. Read the rudder faq: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=467 There is no designed-in bend (inboard / outboard of the tiller arms. That is molded into the upper castings. Bends are on the vertical plane.

Author:	BrianCT [ Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wit's end on Rudder Alignment
Sailinagin wrote: Since I got the boat last year I have always felt something was wrong with my tiller arms/rudder alignment. I have swapped the upper castings/arms to see if they were reversed, to no avail. I have the older castings. With both of my rudder adjusters fully extended the distance between the aft edge of my rudders (in the down position) is 81 1/4", the forward edge is 80 3/4". A 1/2" difference may create the toe in I have heard spoken of here but it makes no sense that both of my tiller adjusters are fully extended and I am still a 1/2" short of being able to make them paralell. If I "eyeball" my tiller arms from the rear looking forward (as the rudders are down) one arm has only an extremely slight bend to the middle of the boat. The other is dead straight. I thought maybe the tiller cross bar was short but have compared it to aonther's and they are the same. Can you see a noticeable bend in both of your tiller arms?? Any thoughts? Were you able to correct this problem? For what it's worth, I have the old style rudder system and both of my tiller arms curve inward. Do you know how your boat has two pieces of deck grip on the rear section of your hulls? Well, the curvature of my tiller arms is such that, when the system is centered, the front of both arms line up directly above the center edge of the inner strip of deck grip (if that makes any sense). My tiller cross bar is the same length as yours (75") and my toe-in measures roughly 1/8" (81 5/8" rear, 81 1/2" front, but this isn't exact since the leading edge of the rudders are fatter than the rear and it's difficult to measure by yourself). Even with only 1/8" toe-in I do still have more weather helm than I would like.

Author:	[email protected] [ Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wit's end on Rudder Alignment
I have the old style rudder castings. Up to recent, I had desperately bad weather helm when the wind picked up. It was a pure fight with the tiller and furthermore impossible to gybe in strong wind. Solution was to remove rudder blades, fill the bolt pivot hole, reposition the blade to its maximum where the leading edge touched the front of the stock, mark the new hole position and re-drill. The leading edge was almost vertical. Today it is almost perfect with only ever so slight weather helm in a strongish wind. I only wish that I had done it earlier.

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Author:	Sailinagin [ Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wit's end on Rudder Alignment
[email protected] wrote: fill the bolt pivot hole, reposition the blade to its maximum where the leading edge touched the front of the stock, Thanks Brian and Richard. I am going to try and post pics later today of my system. I think it has a lot of issues. Richard, can you explain further what you mean by "Leading edge touched the front of the stock"?