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 Post subject: 18SE Mast Weight
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:58 pm
Posts: 179
Location: SE Michigan / NE Indiana
First, I did the obligatory forum search and came up empty handed - so here goes.

Could someone do me a huge favor and get an accurate weight measurement of a known-good mast? Supporting the base on a saw-horse and putting a scale (on another saw horse) under the tip would probably be good enough for me.

I don't hear any more water sloshing around since I drained and sealed a couple of holes last spring, but since my boat still goes turtle in about 10-20sec, I suspect that my mast foam might be saturated with water. Weight would be a good indicator of level of saturation. Hopefully Hobie had good manufacturing consistency and there is not much variation here.

Thanks in advance.

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'88 H18 Jolly Mon
'10 F18 Closely Called
Sail Michigan's Great Lakes in 2014
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 Post subject: Re: 18SE Mast Weight
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
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Location: Detroit, MI
The type of foam that's in the mast doesn't soak up water.

And besides, there's only a couple of small pieces (plugs at each end) in there.

If you can't hear water in there (remember to check the Comptip and lower sections - they're separate) - then there's not enough to worry about.


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 Post subject: Re: 18SE Mast Weight
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:20 pm 
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Total mast assembly with main halyard is between 49 and 50 lbs. no real difference between comp-tip and non-comptip masts.

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H20 '96 "20/20 Vision"
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 Post subject: Re: 18SE Mast Weight
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:04 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:14 pm
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Location: West MI
Jeff,

I have both a comptip mast and a all aluminum mast. When I get a few minutes I will weigh them both with a process description. (I need to get batteries for the scale).

My boat will turtle very fast with the comptip mast on the boat. With the all aluminum mast It is harder to turtle and just lays in the water. Is it the weight of the mast or is it the smaller cross section of the mast near the tip?

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 Post subject: Re: 18SE Mast Weight
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:58 pm
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Location: SE Michigan / NE Indiana
Thanks Dale. No hurry as I won't get to my boat for several weeks.

Matt- realize it could be pilot error, but something seems wrong. Last time I put it over I immediately slid down the tramp and by the time I got around the rudders the boat was past the point of no return. Seems like I should have more time. I've been very careful about water in the mast, so am trying to eliminate possibilities.

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Jeff R
'88 H18 Jolly Mon
'10 F18 Closely Called
Sail Michigan's Great Lakes in 2014
cramsailing.com


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 Post subject: Re: 18SE Mast Weight
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:24 pm
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Location: milwaukee,wi
watch for water in the hulls too.

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 Post subject: Re: 18SE Mast Weight
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:22 pm 
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Ya know from my experience it really depends more on the position of the boat to the wind when the boat goes over. If the boat is +/- 90 degrees to the wind when the boat goes over and the wind is howling (most likely because you went over), the tramp acts as a sail and the wind just drives the boat to turtle.

Also, if your main sail is still cleated (which could happen depending on the disaster) the boat will turtle much slower because the sail has to move a lot of water to get into the turtle position. If the sail is released when you go over it will turtle faster as the sail offers no resistance to the water as the mast travels downward. Same with the jib.

With all that being said, Its just easier to keep the boat in the upright position. But........I know all of us adrenalin junkys love living on the edge. Thats why we sail these things. :mrgreen:

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H20 '96 "20/20 Vision"
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 Post subject: Re: 18SE Mast Weight
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:46 pm 
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Location: West MI
Great winter in Michigan with little snow. I am looking forward to summer.

I weighed both masts, they are identically rigged. Rigging was a bare mast, only diamond wires and mast hinge The process is: I weighed myself on a scale. I picked up each mast and stood on the scale. the difference is listed below.

Comptip Mast 44.8 lbs

All aluminum mast 46.2 lbs

Your masts may be slightly different in weight, I'll be using the comptip for racing.

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DVL 1989 H-18 Worlds Boat, Magnum Wings & Spinnaker

dale.vanlopik"at"att"dot"net


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 Post subject: Re: 18SE Mast Weight
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:58 pm
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Location: SE Michigan / NE Indiana
Thanks Dale. Really appreciate it.

Interesting that there is not much difference in weight between comp-tip and all AL. I'll check mine in a few weeks and see what I find.

Another thought I had on this is relative to the all AL mast, the comp-tip seems to have a smaller, tapered cross-section, thus less air-volume inside and surely less buoyancy. At the end of a very long moment-arm, that can be important.

In the end, if the mast-weight is right, then it simply is what it is. I'll have to find some other ways to keep it from going turtle.

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Jeff R
'88 H18 Jolly Mon
'10 F18 Closely Called
Sail Michigan's Great Lakes in 2014
cramsailing.com


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 Post subject: Re: 18SE Mast Weight
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:14 pm
Posts: 455
Location: West MI
I have a concept that I have been thinking about. Something easily removable for racing.

After I get done helping a FIRST Robotics Team I plan to start building it. I will let you know what it is and if it works.

BTW I will be taking the friday off prior to Muskegon and Caseville. Lets try to get a lot of 18s to show up for those two regattas

Dale

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DVL 1989 H-18 Worlds Boat, Magnum Wings & Spinnaker

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 Post subject: Re: 18SE Mast Weight
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:36 am
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Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
DVL wrote:
I have a concept that I have been thinking about. Something easily removable for racing.

After I get done helping a FIRST Robotics Team I plan to start building it. I will let you know what it is and if it works.

...
Dale


Inflatable mast float?

/Johannes

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 Post subject: Re: 18SE Mast Weight
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:14 pm
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Location: West MI
No, I am thinking of using ½” closed cell foam. I will be using a fabric that would wrap around the bolt rope and be attached to the headboard. That fabric will have a pocket for the foam. The other point of attachment would be the batten grommet. Think of a foam triangle on each side of the top of the sail, going up and down with the raising and lowering of the sail. I just need to determine weight of fabric and foam and the buoyancy of the size that I want and need.
I just want something to keep me from going turtle while sailing alone.

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DVL 1989 H-18 Worlds Boat, Magnum Wings & Spinnaker

dale.vanlopik"at"att"dot"net


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 Post subject: Re: 18SE Mast Weight
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:20 am
Posts: 521
Location: Denver, Colorado
Ok, if the only time you want to use flotation is when you are sailing alone, why not rig up a couple of one gallon plastic milk jugs or a life jacket to a clip that you can attach to the ring on the Main halyard.

I guess it would look kinda crude, but it would be effective.

I have seen a picture of a monohull that had some pouches sewn on to the top panel of the main that he could slip some custom cut sheets of closed cell foam into.

That might be a less hokey looking but effective solution to the problem .

Stephen

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 Post subject: Re: 18SE Mast Weight
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:58 pm
Posts: 179
Location: SE Michigan / NE Indiana
Thanks guys.

My original intent was to ascertain whether something was "wrong" with my boat regarding water in the mast. Weight seemed to be the easiest way to objectively determine if I'm carrying any significant amount (the non-sloshing type :wink: ).

Jolly Mon will be awaking from his winter slumber shortly, and I'll finally be able to know where things stand.

If I'm concerned about going turtle while single-handing, I'll definitely attach some additional flotation up top.

Jeff

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Jeff R
'88 H18 Jolly Mon
'10 F18 Closely Called
Sail Michigan's Great Lakes in 2014
cramsailing.com


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 Post subject: Re: 18SE Mast Weight
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:54 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Florida
Hello,
I have seen people use 2, 2 gal bottles of bleach attached to the tip of the mast! Heavy duty zip ties! I have also seen other people use the pool noddles,close cell foam, the ones with the whole in the middle. Cut them open on one side and glue them to the top of the mast. I guess you could use contact cement for that. They come in a variety of colors.

Another idea is using a cheap tether-ball!

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