Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:53 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:38 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:04 pm
Posts: 3
I'm juast getting into cat sailing....
Will a H18 fit on an H16 trailer? I found a good deal on an H18, however it doesn't come with a trailer as the owner wants to keep his Trailex for his A2 boat. There's a junk H16 with a trailer for $200 near me that i'm be willing to buy for just the trailer if it would fit or could be made to fit with a few modifications. A new Trailex is a little out of my price range at this point. Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:38 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2568
Location: Jersey Shore
An 18 will fit on a 16 trailer just fine. The only thing you probably want to do is put cradles or bunks at least on the front trailer crossbar in place of the rollers. Rollers will point load the hull and can cause damage to the hulls.

The bunks can be as simple as a couple pieces of wood about 6" wide and 8" long with a couple pieces of foam or carpet on them resting on top of the rollers. Or you can use cut pieces of PVC pipe or buy the commercially available cradles. Anything to spread the load out to help protect the hulls.

sm


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:50 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:40 am
Posts: 412
Location: Metuchen NJ
to get a 18 to fit on a 16 trailer may require re-balancing the boat on the trailer. My Trailex trailer was originally bought for my H16. I then bought a H18 and kept the trailer. I did use Trailex's upgrade kit to stiffen the trailer for the heavier H18. Things to look for will be how you position the boat to get the requisite trailer tongue loading, which should be about 10% of the total weight. once you 'locate' the boat for balance, you then adjust the mast stand, etc. for the boat's position.

_________________
Chris
'88 H18SE Arís


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:54 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:04 pm
Posts: 3
Thanks for the info guys


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:33 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:06 pm
Posts: 610
Location: SE PA/ Chesapeak Bay
It's not that uncommon .... has many Hobie Dealers were selling alot more H16's then H18's ... and they only wanted to order/stock one model trailer.

So the main problem is that the H16 trailer is approximently 2' too short ... and most individuals tend to place a H18 too far forward on the trailer .... make a "sharp" turn .... and you dent your tow vehicle's rear quarter panel w/ the bows of the H18 .... (don't ask how I know ... but it took more then once to learn this lesson ...{ towing friends boats ... })

Now ... there are several solutions ....

First, mark the trailer tongue at the proper point so that w/ the H18 loaded on the trailer you can make a 90* turn ... (usually approx 42" back ....) .... now check the rear overhang distance behind the rear trailer crossbar ... there are laws about the distance from the trail lights to end of the "load" overhanging off the rear of a trailer ... (you need to check your state's laws ... they used to vary .... )

So if your trailer is too short ... you need to lengthen it .... the question is ... at which end ....

Easiest is to just install a new longer trailer tongue ... but ... this can add alot of "bounce" when trailering if you extend the trailer tongue too much because of the trailer tongue flexing ... (note: I used this method a galvanized "Hosclaw" trailer using a 9' lg 2"x3" galvinized "box" beam extrusion, the origonal tongue was only 7' lg ... but I wouldn't go much longer .... even through I have some "bounce" the trailer now is +25yrs old and has +100,000 miles estimated on it )

Or ... you extend the tail end of the trailer, by adding length to the side rails of the trailer. Usually the extensions are bolted on to the existing siderails and the trailer's rear crossbar is re-installed.

Now you will need to check the "balance" of the trailer by checking the tongue load ... ( using a "bathroom scale" ) ... you may need to move the axle "fore or aft" depending on how you lengthen the trailer.

And you will need to "re-wire" the trailer lights .... it's easiest to just buy a new complete "wiring harness" (usually approx $25-30.00) and "pull" it through and install it. I recommend "soldering" all connections ... prevents later problems w/ "insulation displacement connecters" that ALWAYS fail after several years ... especially if you "dunk" the trailer into water.

Last ... remove ALL rollers from the trailer .... they are great for a H16 .... but can ruin a H18 .... and install bunks (carpeted pressure treated 2"X8" boards) or cradles (see various threads here for ideas/examples ... ex: H18: Big Re-Build ... )

It's not difficult to do .... and is alot cheaper then buying a new trailer. If you install "bunks" ... you can do these "mod's" in a afternoon, cradles take a little longer too fabricate ..... try and find a galvinized trailer .... they last FOOOOREEEEVERRRRRRRR .... alum/Trailex's while nice and light, experience "metal fatique from vibration/occilations" and can fracture over time ... (it's a inherent property of alum vs steel ... and is the main reason why airplanes need to be retired after so many flight hours )

( I trailer using a F150 4X4 ... so trailer wieght isn't that much of a issue for me ... a "Mini-Cooper ... or .... a VX Golf .... then trailer wieght is a much larger concern .... )

(I've re-built over a half-doz trailer for my friends and I over the years .... I keep finding old "parts" boats holding down a perfectly good re-buildable galvinized trailer in fields/backyards ....)

_________________
HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:43 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:24 pm
Posts: 112
Location: Todd Mission, Texas
I mounted my trailer lights and license plate to a pair of 2x4s built into a beam that also carries my mast and serves as a rear tie down point. when the boat comes off the trailer i put the mast carrier/light bar on the deck of the trailer out of way. I will be modifying this rig to have a second plug in so the light bar is easier to remove. The beam has 12" wide padded saddles to distribute the strap load over a larger area.

_________________
Jeff
1986 Hobie 18 #13031


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:06 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:40 am
Posts: 412
Location: Metuchen NJ
Harry, I'll disagree about aluminum trailers.
I bought my first and only Trailex aluminum trailer new in 1979 for my H16. In 1988 I bought a H18 and the upgrade-extension kit from Trailex. The ONLY problem I ever had with the trailer came from their 90° 'bent' angles to connect the side rails to the cross bearers, which I replaced with cast angles.

Last year I finally replaced the leaf springs and reconditioned the axle... steel items.

So the Trailex is starting its 33rd season and is in far better shape than any steel trailer of the same vintage would be, plus its a lot lighter. Shucks, I could tow the H18 with my 4 cylinder GTI.

_________________
Chris
'88 H18SE Arís


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:01 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:06 pm
Posts: 610
Location: SE PA/ Chesapeak Bay
Now ... I didn't say I would turn one down .... I would like to have a Trailex ... my personal favorite is the H21 Double stack trailer they made. I just haven't found one under a "parts" boat yet ...

... but ...

It is a engineering fact that aluminum does experience "metal fatigue failures" usually caused by vibrations/occilations and reacts differently then steel does. While steel will retain it's strength and when it does fail, it does so at a very high proportion of it's origonally rated strength, aluminum on the other hand when it experiences a "metal fatigue failure" it can occur at a low percentage of it's origonally rated strength (and usually does ... sometimes as low as 20-30%).

So you need to be careful of vibration/occilation cycles when using aluminum ... or for example ... the roof of the airplane you are flying on in Hawaii ... just rips away ....

Now, I know of several Trailex Trailers that have experience trailer tongue failures .... the trailer tongues fatigued and cracked (in two) directly under the mast step. Both trailers have/had fairly long trailer tongues. The first one I didn't think anything of it ... the second got me curious. Now, "Mr Stanley" told me that on both trailers the mast steps were mounted exactly at 1/2 the overall length of the trailer tongue ..... MMMmmmmmm .... a harmonic ?????? .... a resonant frequency ??????

So .... we have carefully moved all the mast steps on my friends "Trailex's" trailers so that they are NOT exactly at the mid-point of the trailer tongue .... and hopefully no longer generate a harmonic .... niether has failed again and I think we eliminated the cause of the failures. And note that I haven't since seen any "Trailexs" constructed w/ such long trailer tongues, as both were early 80's construction ... they seem to come now w/ shorter trailer tongues and longer side rails .... which makes for a stiffer trailer ... w/ less "bounce" ....

(... and this is why if I had to "extend" my trailer today I would add the length to the rear/aft end by extending the side rails ...)

So ... if you know were I can get my hands on a properly sized "Trailex" for my H18 .... CHEAP .... (and that seems to be the biggest issue ... is the $$$'s) ... just let me grab my jacket and truck keys, and I'm out the door ... but till then I will just have to suffer w/ cheaper HEAVY galvanized trailers ....

_________________
HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:34 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:40 am
Posts: 412
Location: Metuchen NJ
the Trailex's extension-upgrade kit does two important things: First it creates a continuous tongue-center beam from the hitch to the rear cross bearer. Second, it extends the side rails further aft about 30" for the longer H18.
With the upgrade the entire frame is ridgidly tied together.

the Trailex's I've seen that flex have a tongue that only extends to the front cross bearer. To me flexing is more a function of loosening connections than material weakness.

I don't disagree about metal fatigue, but you can be sure that thin wall steel sections are subject to fatigue just as aluminum is.

_________________
Chris
'88 H18SE Arís


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:11 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:06 pm
Posts: 610
Location: SE PA/ Chesapeak Bay
Mornin' Chris,

One of the trailers was constructed exactly as you discribed above and the other (if I were to hazard a quess ...) was a H16 trailer that had a longer trailer tongue installed for a H18, but no other modifications.

I think the location of the mast step was the critical factor ... combined w/ how aluminum fails .....

What I found interesting is that both trailers seemed "bouncy" before they failed ... both had the same type of failures, at exactly the same mid-point on the trailer tongue .... so (I theorize ...) if you stay away from "simple" ratios on were your mast step is mounted such as 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, etc to the overall length ... you shouldn't generate any harmonics/resonents frequencies in the trailer tongue. ( ... you can use a calculator and check for a non-repeating "odd" number ... and use that to determine were exactly to mount your mast step ... a few inches either way can make all the difference ...)

Note, that I didn't origonally assemble the trailers, so I don't know why they mounted the mast steps were they did ... (easy math ???) ... only fix them .... and could only surmize at the actual cause of the failure .... and I haven't seen any fail like that since .... but .... I also haven't seen anymore "Trailex's" assembled like those two either ....

_________________
HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:56 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:04 pm
Posts: 3
Thanks for the detailed information guys. I appreciate it. Unfortunately the H16 trailer i was looking to buy was already sold so bact to the drawing board. I'm good with a welder, so I may have to consider just building one if I can't find something suitable.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group