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 Post subject: Wings Questions
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 3:15 pm
Posts: 124
Location: Buffalo, NY
I recently picked up a pair of SX wings for the 18, because I figured that you can't really go wrong... not that my pocketbook agrees.

The wings look to be in fine shape to my eye... though figuring out how to transport them is another story.

I've heard a lot of praise for wings on the forum, and I can definitely see the value in all the extra room they will open up aboard the boat. That said, I like how my 18 handles as is, so I'm still a bit apprehensive about them. I love the power, hull flying ability and jumpy nature of the boat in gusty winds. Worst case, I figure I can always take them off and sell them. How do other people feel? Do wings significantly change the feel or the handling of the boat?

Also, does anybody know the size & type of rivets used on the mounting hardware? I don't see them listed in the parts catalog. I imagine either SS or Monel, they can't possibly be aluminum? 3/16 x 1/2?

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'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921


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 Post subject: Re: Wings Questions
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 720
Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
As I recall there were 48 Monels #8010121, plus rivet caps, check with your Hobie dealer.
Lucky, my buddy had an air powered rivet gun.

If he shipping distance is 'short', like under a day's drive, go pick them up. My first set were shipped in from California to Ottawa Canada. Email me offline and I can send you pictures as to how they were crated and shipped.... lunnjohn 'at' magma dot ca. Lotsa drilling....

We love our wings... took a little while to get used to going out on the wing without tromping like an a herd of elephants. However, once out, you can trapeze like you won't believe. If the action of your mainsheet and traveler are smooth, and if you stay awake, you should not have a problem with the leeward wing digging in during a puff. Have you tried Robbline for your mainsheet?

With wings, you will sail dryer than you've ever sailed before...enjoy.

Besides, if you don't like them, you can always sell them....

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1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


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 Post subject: Re: Wings Questions
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:58 pm 
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Posts: 184
You can also remove them temporarily and leave them at home sometimes.

I raced without my wings and put them on to take my 'ol man out sailing in regular apparel. He didn't even get his socks wet.

I've also used wings in heavy weather storm conditions with two crew members on the wings and me as skipper resting against them. The boat felt VERY stable. Then I went in and dropped one off... and we buried a wing and went swimming. I just sold them as most of my sailing is class racing, and my wings lived in a pile in my back yard.

Have fun!

Tom

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Tom
Fleet 259, Central Coast CA
H18 ('81)
H18 ('85)
H20 ('97)
H18 ('78)


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 Post subject: Re: Wings Questions
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 8:36 am 
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Location: Oceanside, California
http://static.hobiecat.com/digital_assets/H18_Parts.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Wings Questions
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 8:54 am 
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Avila Beach Regatta, 2014 Rick Haynes and son

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H18 '89 "Knotty Passion"
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Fleet 259 Central Coast California


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 Post subject: Re: Wings Questions
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 10:02 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:40 am
Posts: 415
Location: Metuchen NJ
I added Magnum wings to my H18 two years ago. They increased the family enjoyment of the boat immensely, especially early in the season when the water is still cool. I remove them for racing and soon found the crossbar mounting flanges have to come off as well for racing, as they are a danger to body limbs.

I'm pretty happy with them.

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'88 H18SE Arís


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 Post subject: Re: Wings Questions
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 11:22 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:25 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Lawtons, NY
I'm just south of Buffalo and have the installation book for sx wings if that would help. Plus Fleet 119 out of Evangola State Park has nine 18's with both magnum and sx wings, many of which were installed by fleet members.

If you sail on the open waters of Lake Erie the wings will keep you drier,improve sitting comfort, and add control when the breeze picks up.

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H18 "Puka-Luka"
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 Post subject: Re: Wings Questions
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 3:15 pm
Posts: 124
Location: Buffalo, NY
John Lunn wrote:
As I recall there were 48 Monels #8010121, plus rivet caps, check with your Hobie dealer.


Thanks, I'll give those a shot!

moncasta wrote:
You can also remove them temporarily and leave them at home sometimes.


That was actually a factor in getting them. I imagine the wings will be great for added room and comfort, but I like the challenge of sailing my H18 without them, so I expect I'll want to sail without on occasion :)

Matt, I don't see the rivets on those pages, just the brackets and other misc. parts? I'll be getting the brackets off of the current owner's boat, and I've been told that Hobie has run out of most of this hardware? I noticed it's in last year's catalog but not this year's.

wscotterwin, cool pic.

OlderBowman, thanks for the input. I was wondering if the tabs might be easily covered or had to be removed, but I certainly wouldn't want them sticking out!

Wattfarm, I keep my boat on the trailer, but Sturgeon Point Marina is probably the closest launch point to me. Ironically, I haven't sailed out of there yet, but I've sailed in the inner & outer harbor and on the upper Niagara river. I've seen fleet 119 sail up to Mickey Rats before, but I haven't met any of the members yet. I intended to follow centralmichigansailor's approach from his Hobie 18 assembly (viewtopic.php?f=13&t=36064&start=15). Is there much more to it than that?

I figure the wings will be great on Lake Erie, so long as they don't dig into the chop... but I figure they should be high enough to avoid it. I'm most looking forward to having more room and getting up off the hulls, though I might actually miss it a bit!

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Mike
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'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921


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 Post subject: Re: Wings Questions
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 7:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 3:15 pm
Posts: 124
Location: Buffalo, NY
Alright, I'm confused. The forward anchor plates seem pretty straightforward, but the anchor plate on the rear crossbar... the starboard side in particular, seems to be a conflict. How does this anchor plate get installed such that the trampoline can still be installed, removed or replaced? I have four equal length slugs, do I need one of the longer slugs to make the installation? I've noticed that the notch in the trampoline track has a crack that has extended the notch another 1/2", which slightly concerns me.

Also, the tabs I have do not line up (as far as I can tell) with the welded struts. I recognize the angle is different between the fore and aft struts, but I'm curious, do these tabs usually require additional bending to get them to fit up properly?

Finally, the legs of the wings seem slightly "racked." If these wings were brand new, I imagine I would have to align the wings, legs, struts and tabs, and then drill and rivet the legs to the wings so that they align properly and the struts sit properly on the tabs. I guess my question is, what is the usual approach to installing a "new" set of used wings? How much fitting/refitting is necessary?

My set of wings and mounting hardware is all used equipment, though it seems to be in good condition.

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'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921


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 Post subject: Re: Wings Questions
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 8:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 720
Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
Alignment of wings on mounting..... there is a trick.

The first thing to do is to line up the foot of the short legs, so that the foot sits on top of the outer bolt (the bolt that secures the cross bar to the hull). Then you 'set' the position of your ''slugs" in the tramp slots on the cross bars. Later, you can mount/rivet the anchor plates, which 'set and secure' the slugs. They are not critical for the first mount.

When you've got the wings pivoting and setting down properly, then attached the clevis pins at the foot of the short legs to the s/steel tabs. Alignment is tricky, you may need to wiggle the tab.

Next, attach the 'retaining rods' behind the rear legs, this prevents the wings from 'folding forward' in the event of a pitch pole while you are sitting/trapping off the wings. You will need the ''instructions' for this... as the 'set' of the wings must be pulled 'forward'.

When you are quite satisfied with location, swing up/down, etc then you can mount the anchor plates.

Once you mount wings, you will lose the ability to remove the rear lacing strip. Email me off line at lunnjohn 'at' magma dot ca, and I can send you pictures.

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1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


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 Post subject: Re: Wings Questions
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 11:05 am 
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Posts: 124
Location: Buffalo, NY
Thanks John,

I didn't realize that the trampoline lacing strip would be permanently installed on the boat once the wings were in place. I came across the SX wings installation manual, which is helpful as well. I will be referring to it in addition to centralmichigansailor's detailed installation procedure.

As I mentioned, I've just recently noticed that the trampoline track is cracked at the slot right where the slug is supposed to sit, which has me a little worried. However, with the riveted anchor plate over it, I don't think it should be a problem? The force at this point should be almost exclusively an upward force, based on the moment created by the wings.
Image

The aft leg struts sit down on the crossbar pretty well, but the forward struts don't line up very well... but I'm still in the "rough alignment" stage. Do these struts need to fit flat on the casting (around the bolt)? Otherwise, I'll likely need to chisel out/flat the countersink that the bolt sits in on each side. I've already done this a little bit to get the tabs to sit flat.

As a '79 Hobie, do I need to add reinforcement at the crossbars? I already have added anchor plates on both sides of the forward crossbar. I'm also installing hull ports aft, about 3-4" aft of the crossbar, where I had some soft spot repairs... is there any issue with installing them that close?

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Mike
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'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921


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 Post subject: Re: Wings Questions
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 11:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
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Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
1979 is one of the old 'heavy' boats, so no red line, and you should be good.
Having said that, if you sail 'hard', especially trapping while beating upwind, it may be a good idea to add the fibreglass tabs on the inside of the hulls. The hulls take a lot of force here from the wings, especially in the vertical wall of the hull. This force needs to be 'spread' so it can be carried by the entire hull.

That crack is not significant.

Have you checked that your 1979 boat is 'square'? That may be a reason for the slight misalignment. (Measure corner to corner, diagonally). I repeat, the foot of the short strut must sit on top of the head of the outer bolt. Get local help from others if you are struggling. Three of my struts line up perfectly, one needs a bit of a 'push' to get it to line up.

later

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1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


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 Post subject: Re: Wings Questions
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 3:15 pm
Posts: 124
Location: Buffalo, NY
I had considered that my boat/hull alignment may need to be adjusted... I figure it's best to get the trampoline on and tight to make sure that nothing shifts, prior to finalizing the alignment.

Thanks again John. I know how much force and stress is acting on these boats, so I figure it's always best to check with the 'experts' before making any major changes or modifications, and err on the side of caution.

I'll try and get a bit further along with the wing installation next weekend. I can't wait to try 'em out! XD

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Mike
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'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921


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 Post subject: Re: Wings Questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:19 am 
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Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 3:15 pm
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Location: Buffalo, NY
I'm still working on the fit up of the wings. :x Come hell or high-water, I'm sailing this weekend... with or without them. As far as I can tell, I'm fighting a poor fit up by the previous owner.

Both endcaps on the port wing legs had slipped out by ~1/2", and the rivets there did some damage to the leg... there is a "bulge" of aluminum just below the original rivet hole where each rivet stressed the aluminum, with some very small/minor cracks. I drilled them out (quite a pain with the rivet caps!) and I'm going to try to hammer the bulge flat before riveting the endcap back on.

Starboard wing is finally fit, but the front leg was previously installed rotated slightly aft. The endcap of the leg is TIGHT to the forward crossbar, so the anchor plate won't fit between them. I'm planning on getting the anchor plate as tight to the crossbar as possible and grinding the leg endcap thinner to accommodate it. Otherwise it would put a lot of force on the strut. Does anyone know why there are two low profile locknuts on the socket-head screw? I'm planning on either countersinking the endcap to fit over the nut (like caleb did in his wing install) or leaving it off... I don't want to remove too much material.

Port wing: The forward leg was fit up poorly by the previous owner. The leg strut was angled BAD. In order to get it to sit flat on the crossbar, I had to grind off almost 1/4". Now my problem is that the forward leg wants to sit significantly lower than the aft leg. There will be considerable twist in the wing if I install it this way, so I think I unfortunately need to grind down the aft leg strut. The whole wing will have a slight outboard cant to it. It's really unfortunate, and not at all what I had intended, but I don't see any alternative.

Finally, my rear tramp lacing strip is too long to fit between the slugs and anchor plates, and will need to be shortened. Does anybody know a way to do this that won't cause it to tear on me down the road?

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'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921


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 Post subject: Re: Wings Questions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 720
Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
Mike:
cut the rear strip to size, then carefully heat seal with a flame or soldering iron so the loose ends will not 'shred'.

Any MIG/TIG welder will tell you that welding a tubular structure has its own challenges.... (as you heat up the metal, it expands and the alignment changes) ... and you are finding out the hard way that 'fitting' a tubular structure to a set of fixed points is a real challenge. Keep plugging away.... and post pictures of the results when done.

Good winds

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1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


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