Fair price for Hobie

Good afternoon,

A friend of mine is willing to sell me his 2002 Hobie 18SX. It's a freshwater cat that's seen very little use. I would say the condition is 'great' to 'excellent'. The only real damage we're aware of is a few minor gelcoat repairs needed and one dagger board is split on the bottom. The hulls and sails are in great shape. It comes with a spinnaker, trailer, 'toy box', winch for solo mast stepping, 3 harnesses, and a righting bag. Overall it's a very nice boat -- he's the original owner and I know he's taken very good care of it.

Since we're good friends, neither of us are looking to take advantage of the other so we're just trying to find out what a fair price would be. What do you think is a fair price? There are very few comparable cats in our area so it feels like taking a stab in the dark but we're thinking around the $6,000-$7,000 range.

Any help would be appreciated and I can answer any questions. I've been out on this cat several times and had an absolute blast. I really want to call it my own!

Thanks!

its worth what you are willing to pay. sounds like you are already willing to pay 6500.

A boat that new is rare indeed! I'm not sure how you'd go about figuring out a fair price. I think you are in the ballpark, however. With all the accessories and add-ons included, you could make a case for more.

The problem is that market price is entirely dependent on the demand in your area. Hobies are not like a "Sea Ray," for example, where there are thousands of them with a fairly predictable depreciation/market value. I believe that a new 16 is about $12k without the trailer, and the wildcat is ~$22k. An 18SX you'd expect to be halfway between, so ~$17k plus accessories. But being 13 years old, I'd figure it'd be worth maybe half that at most.

You could also try taking what the boat cost brand new at the time, figure it has a usable lifespan of ~ 40 - 50 years, but say the tramp, sails and rigging are halfway through their usable life and work something out that way.

No matter what you do, the value is going to be highly subjective. Whatever you both think is reasonable, all things considered, is what I'd agree on.

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Mike

'79 H18 standard 'Rocketman II' sail #14921 RIP
'78 H18 (unnamed) sail #14921
'08 H16 sail #114312
'97 H21SC sail #238

Sabres,

Thanks for the input. I came up with the $6000-7000 figure using similar logic to what you suggested: he paid $17,000 (in 2015 dollars) and I estimate that the salvage value to be roughly $2,000 with a useful life of 20 years (at which point major repairs are imminent if not cared for properly). If calculate straight line depreciation with these estimates then the cat would be worth somewhere in the high $6000s today. He agreed to give me a 'deal' because if he sells it to me he knows I'll still take him sailing whereas if he sells to a stranger he'll never see it again !

Anyways, it doesn't sound like we're too far off. Thanks again for the input.

It's what your willing to pay. Its very rare to find a post 1995 H18. With the SX you also have to take into account how soon you will have to replace the sails due to delam. The dagger and a little gel coat is cheap in comparison to sails.

Does it have Wings?

Photos???

91 H18 SX

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Corkguy H18, Tiger, Wildcat

Thanks for the reply. No photos yet -- I'll see if I can get some though. Any particular part(s) of the boat that pics would be especially useful for pricing? Yes, it has wings (so comfortable for longer times sailing!).

Do the sails delaminate strictly due to age or is it due to use/wear? I'd be surprised if he had this boat out more than 10 times altogether so if delamination is due to wear I'd expect to see very little of it. In any case I'll be sure to check the sails. Any idea on what new sail would cost if/when they need to be replaced?

'Newer' SX18's are like hen's teeth.

The only question I have is:
Where are you located and do you suffer from winter freeze up?
In other words, how was the SX18 stored in winter?
Inside/outside, flat, on rollers, on boards?

You will have to check the sails carefully re de-lamination issues.
Is the spinnaker an original Hobie or a custom or Tiger/F18 style?

Your price range is reasonable, and if you decide not to buy, please contact me!

Good winds

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

Hobie catalogue offers 18SX sails in white at 1,799 for Main, and 799 for jib, in Dacron.
Alternatives are to contact Chip at Whirlwind Sails, likely at similar prices.
Strongly suggest you stick with a pinhead main sail (i.e. no square top).

In the 1980's, sail lofts came up with a 'sandwich' of Dacron and plastic film for sail material.
These two are fused together with a glue.
At first, the performance was much better than Dacron.
However, over time, the glue dried, and the sails began to delaminate.
My 'old' sails were 20 years old when I bought my 'baby', the main was fair, (not delaminated but blown) and the jib was shot, both blown and delammed.
Today, folks have either gone back to Dacron OR moved up to Pentex or similar.

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

We live in Minnesota so freezing weather is a guarantee in the winter. The cat was stored outside year-round on the trailer with a pitched tarp covering to avoid snow buildup. The trailer does NOT have rollers. Instead it has 4 carpet covered 'cradles' (2 for each hull). Is this a good way to store it in the future?

There is some confusion over the spinnaker. It was purchased new with the boat but the dealer (licensed Hobie dealer) had to install it. That leads me to believe it is a Hobie spinnaker (not custom) and probably just standard (not Tiger/F18). Any way to tell for sure?

Wow! Thanks for the information/pricing. I'll be sure to look at the sail closely for any delamination. It's good to know there are options if/when replacement is necessary...but it's not cheap.

I believe UV is a big factor in sail delamination. As far as storing in the winter, heated indoor storage is preferable. Failing that, drain and dry the hulls thoroughly, followed by covered outdoor storage. The thermal cycling causes moisture & condensation to collect in the hulls, which can accelerate the formation of soft spots, though you're at least a decade away from really having an issue with that. Still, try to keep your hulls dry/well ventilated year round for best maintenance.

The stock H18SX spinnakers were somewhat outdated in design, from what I've heard. More of a full cut for deeper downwind, rather than the flatter cut asymmetrical reachers common on modern tigers and F18 boats. I think most who have an SX rig now run custom spins or use tiger spins. I'm curious if yours is bag launched from the trampoline (as was stock on the 18SX, or so I'm told) or if it has a snuffer system? I should mention that I'm reiterating what I've heard here rather than speaking from experience. I'm not terribly familiar with the SX setup. JohnLunn and others would probably know better.

Speaking of, why do you recommend the pinhead sail over a square top, John?

SabresfortheStanleyCup, see the post under H16 Boomless Rig for a discussion on pinhead sails.

You are correct that the 'original' spin set up was a tramp mounted bag system, leaving very little 'space' on the tramp.
The newer systems were conversions from the Tiger/F18 set up, with mid-pole snuffer and a much flatter cut spin.
Mine was created by Jeremy of Surf City, with a spin cut by Chip, and worth every penny.
Caution - spin sailing is not for newbies.

_________________
2015 H16, with spin,
SOLD 1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947 "In Theory..."
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'

Sabres/John,

I will check on the spinnaker today. TBH, the spinnaker setup is on the very low end of my priorities. I'm still new to sailing and I don't expect to even take the spinnaker out until I have a couple seasons under my belt. Like John said, spins aren't for newbies. I think I'll have plenty of fun for the time being just getting used to soloing the cat!

Sounds to me like you are in the right price ballpark. Last year I was looking for a boat exactly like this. There is a small market for a boat like this, by to the right buyer the price is about right I think. I recently saw an SX with a full set of Tiger sails, looked awesome. Another alternative for when the sails eventually age. I presume this is the same boat that is on Craigslist at the moment.

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Scott
Hobie 18 w/wings
Hobie/Holder 12 Funseeker
2 Hobie Waves
Tandem Oasis Kayak
Hobie 16
Southern California

Thanks to everyone who provided input. I'm now the proud owner of a Hobie 18SX!! I picked it up last Saturday and was sailing on Sunday. I still have a lot to learn but I know I'm going to love this boat.

Thanks again everyone.