Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:00 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:36 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:57 pm
Posts: 153
Location: Southern New Jersey
I recently purchased a pre 1987 HC 18 and I am not sure if it had been updated with the newer rudder castings. I know that the conversion kit includes replacement upper/lower castings, tiller tube, cam, plunder, gudgeons and hardware. From the 2006/2007 parts catalog it appears as if the older style cam is no longer available. I sailed it only twice before the weather got cold and I put the boat away for the winter, but the rudder kick-up and seemed to work find.

Is there an easy/sure was to visually inspect the rudder assembly to see if it has been converted?

Is there any performance (or other) reason I should be looking to update my rudder assemblies now? (If they're working, why fix 'em?)


Last edited by danneskjold on Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Old vs New Rudder Assy.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:21 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 12:05 pm
Posts: 11
Location: California
If the rudder cam is silver aluminum, it is the old style. If the cam is black plastic, it is the new style. Hope this helps.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:11 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:57 pm
Posts: 153
Location: Southern New Jersey
OK. So I've checked and the rudder lock down cam is aluminum. I have the old style rudder castings. As I stated before the rudder kick-up and lock down seemed to work fine.

What is the advantage of upgrading to the new rudder casting? Is it worth the $550 for the conversion kit? or the risk of purchasing used rudder castings from Ebay?

_________________
John Latimer
'79 Hobie18 - Magnum
Sail#4854


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:57 am 
Offline
Authorized Hobie Dealer

Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 7:35 pm
Posts: 1370
Location: 315 N. Hwy 79 Panama City Beach, FL 32413 850-235-2281
the new rudder system seems to work a little bit better, and parts are readily available to get you back on the water fast. we always end up with a few bits and pieces of the old system around the shop but still recommend the upgrade. The hardest part of the upgrade is the drilling and tapping of the 2 new holes in the stern, which is very simple!

_________________
Brad Stephens
Brad@sunjammers.com
(866) 786-5266 <--- Advice HOTline
http://www.sunjammers.com
www.facebook.com/sunjammers
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:13 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2523
Location: Jersey Shore
The new system does work better, however the old-style rudder castings can still be made to work. I've got them on my old 18. The advantages of the new system are a more reliable kick-up and adjustable rudder rake. One disadvantage of the new rudders is the plastic cam can get worn out and get stuck in the down postion.

The trick to getting the old rudders to work is to use sufficient lubrication. I use bearing grease on the lock-down roller surface and also on the cam where it engages the roller (WD-40 or silicone spray will wash away quickly). Also, I use very light tension on the cam tensioning spring. I use bungee cord wrapped around the rudder and rudder pin to help hold the rudder down. Using these techniques, the rudders work reliably and will kick-up if they hit bottom.

sm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:27 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:11 pm
Posts: 114
Just curious why no one has ever made an aluminum cam for the new style?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:15 am 
Offline
Hobie Approved Guru

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4580
Location: Detroit, MI
The cams need to have a certain amount of flex in them to work properly.

Aluminum is too stiff.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:42 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:43 am
Posts: 779
Location: St. Louis, MO
The new cams are cheap and very easy to replace. Whenever I go sailing I always have a spare set in my toolbox. I also replace them each year for my Spring time tune up. It takes about 5 minutes per side.

_________________
Nick

Current Boat
In the market
Previous boats owned
'74 Pearson 30
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
St. Louis, MO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:43 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:11 pm
Posts: 114
Oh I agree it easy enough to replace the cam. I keep two sets in the trailer and one set in the tramp bag. I have only had two problems with the newer style. One is I have had to replace the set screw that holds the cam in place twice because the threaded part of the screw broke. The second is I have had to replace a cam because it was deformed and would allow the rudder to pop up but the cam would still be locked down. My guess is the later was due to improper lubrication.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Cam lubrication
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:33 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8910
Location: Oceanside, California
Exactly!

Keep the cams lubricated and you would never have to replace them.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:43 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 7:49 am
Posts: 1072
Location: North Carolina
Have to disagree with you Matt. Yes, lubrication will make them last longer but not forever. Since they are plastic the pressure to unlock will overtime stretch the cam allowing the rudder to kick up without unlocking the cam. I also find it best to replace them on a regular basis.
The old style castings work great and stay locked. The problem with them is that they don't like to kick up without lifting on the crossbar. In a lake the old style will work well, in the ocean they are a pain in the butt. Waves create an extra element to tend with both heading out and in. Many 18's have lost their transoms to the old style in the surf. If you pay attention the old style will serve you well inland, if sailing from a crowded beach area get the updates. My 2 cents.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:53 am 
Offline
Authorized Hobie Dealer

Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 7:35 pm
Posts: 1370
Location: 315 N. Hwy 79 Panama City Beach, FL 32413 850-235-2281
I am sailing a 2004 worlds H16, sailed all the days in Mexico, got shipped to new York, I think it was use in the alter cup, youth national, and H16 opens, I have been sailing a lot. I let the US sailing youth team train with it last year, they went out about 4 times a week, they would go out for about 45 min, come in make some adjustments and go back out for about 5 hours, that a lot of up and down with rudders. My cams still look new 3 years latter with tons of use. However I have customers that go through about 2 pair a summer, who knows.....

_________________
Brad Stephens
Brad@sunjammers.com
(866) 786-5266 <--- Advice HOTline
http://www.sunjammers.com
www.facebook.com/sunjammers
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Cams
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:25 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8910
Location: Oceanside, California
ncmbm wrote:
Yes, lubrication will make them last longer but not forever.


Well... as they say... never say never! Forever is a similar term. So, yes, maybe not "forever" but a very, very long time compared to lack of lubrication. Lubricating the cam prevents most damage from use and will extend the life of the cams.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:16 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:10 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Fresno Ca
Has anybody tried or considered reproducing the aluminum cam? I have a friend who owns a machine shop and im thinking about asking him to make a few.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Rudder Cams
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:17 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:06 pm
Posts: 610
Location: SE PA/ Chesapeak Bay
The analysis of Lake sailing vs Surf sailing is dead on correct. I can tell from the quote of using "bearing grease" that that person most likely sails on a lake and does not launch or land on a sandy beach like we have here on the east coast. YOU CAN NOT USE ANY LUBRICANT THAT WILL ATTRACT OR RETAIN SAND!!!! A few grains of sand and the mechanism binds up. Maybe a "dry lubricant" but grease is "FORBOTTEN".

Now I have posted this solution before on this forum in January ... fill the plastic cams w/ MARINE-TEX on the hollow side ... sand off the excess after hardening ( I use the black type) Make sure to scuff up the inside of the hollow so as to promote a better bond. I have used epoxies but the Marine-Tex is "stickier" and seems to attach itself to the plastic better. A set of cams can last several seasons if you do this, OK?

Hobie Cat has over the years made (3) varients of the plastic cams ... The origonal cams sold had the center pivot/boss supported by three reinforcing ribs with the boss touching the thick edge on the fourth side. Then for what ever reason they changed the mold to only one reinforcing rib so as the center boss was only supported at 9 & 3 o'clock. THESE CAMS WERE/ARE CRAP!!! One hit and the center boss would deflect/bend out of alignment and it was done ... trash!!! This is when I developed the technique of filling the hollow side in. Currently the cams availible have two reinforcing ribs and the boss is touching the 3rd side the outter thick edge ... and they last a little longer but ... they are still junk!

Matt M if you don't believe me I have several examples laying around in my shop somewhere. Hobie needs to return to the (3) reinforcing rib mold or have the cams "machined" out of a solid piece of delran or tephlon on a CNC Milling Machine.

To "UNLOCK" a stuck Rudder Cam: Carry a thin putty knife on board ... to unlock a stuck cam place the putty knife vertically between the cam and casting, pushing down on the plunger, you will be able to rotate the cam by hand.

Also DO NOT forget to use the little plastic bushings on the rudderpins/ casting as a $20.00 SS Rudderpin wears out the $150.00 lowwer casting resulting in alot of slop in you rudders.

Sail Flat, Sail Fast

Harry

_________________
HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group