Ropes

I am mostly (at this point) a casual sailor.

Just bought a 5-1 downhaul and the rope that came with it is a bit short for my 18 (it fits several boats). Do I need to go to West or Murrays and pay $1.00/ft or will a good braided poly line from the local hardware store work just fine. It looks and feels indistinguishable to me.

Is the expensive stuff stronger? Less stretchy? More Durable? Easier on the hands? More flexible?

While I'm at it what about the rest of my lines/sheets/halyards? Mine are probably at least 10 years old and maybe original to my '84. I've heard people say that rope technology has gotten a lot better over the years and that 7/16 or even 3/8 works better than 1/2 for the main as it goes through the sheaves easier. Again, is the $2.50/ft stuff imported from Luxumberg that much better than the GOOD stuff I can get locally?

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The ox is slow but the earth is patient

As long as the good braided poly is rated for the load and has little or no stretch, you should be good. The Hobie provided rope is a bit stiff for my tastes.

8mm Robline is $1.69/ foot and is pretty good stuff. 9mm is $1.99.

And for your downhaul the Robline 8 plait dingy 5mm line at $.64 per foot is great. Or if you can find it the Marlow 8 plait in 4mm is fine at $.51 per foot. Get good line right off the bat. The hardware store line won't last that long and you'll be replacing it several times over the good stuff.

It's line if it's on your boat. It's rope if it's tying something to your truck.

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Sail Revolution
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$2.00 x a 50 ft Main is $100 for just one line!

Actually I really only NEED to replace the downhaul which didn't really seem all that critical and in looking at line I got the idea to try running smaller lines and color code them to help my family learn to sail. I figure I can do that for about $30 and if they only last 1 season it's no big deal.

Anybody know the required tensile strength for each of the lines on an 18?

I figure there are 2 halyards, 2 sheets and 2 hauls.

At first I didn't include the jib halyard but the short part you leave attached gets tugged on every time you sheet the main in.

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The ox is slow but the earth is patient

JS,

Just to share a thought, The quality of the lines on your boat have a huge impact on how you interact with the boat itself. Other than your ass on the glass, EVERYTHING you do and feel is thru the lines you handle. would you put inferior tires on your car?, an inferior steering wheel ?

When you go to replace the lines, the good stuff will not be any cheaper than it is today, and the money you spend on poor quality lines will have been wasted.

There is some stuff in the E-Bay stores that you might want to take a look at, altho I would not buy any product that I have not actually FELT.

You can get good stuff for significantly less than $2 per foot that will be much better than 'hardware store stuff"

Go to a real yachting store where there is a broader selection of product, talk to someone knowledgeable, explain your need for economy vs quality and see what you come up with. If they are helpful, buy it from them.

Buying from West Marine and Online stores is putting local boat dealers and yachting stores out of business. Look what happens in small towns when they open a Wal mart. (Dang, climbed right up onto THAT Soapbox, didn't I. Sorry !!!)

I restore cats I buy out of backyards and storage lots and even tho I will never spend a minute on the water with the boat prior to selling it, I never cut corners on the lines I put on the boat.

Always remember, the bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.

Stephen

PS, Line thickness is mostly a matter of personal preference. I perfer to go as small as comforatably possible. In my opinion, 1/2 is wayyyyy to thick for a mainsheet. I use 3/8. It runs thru the blocks so much more smoothly. The downside is it can be a little harder on the hands. @ 52 I have very little, if any arthritis, and have not problem at all with the smaller diameter line.

PPS, 50' is way longer than you need for a mainsheet. 40' to 44' is plenty unless you are sailing with wings.

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If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, maybe it is time to water your own lawn.

This was really not about money as much as trying something different and getting a training tool. The only line I really need to replace is the downhaul that's too short. And the line that came with it really doesn't look all that special.

Neither BW or West had anything I wanted anyway because they like all the mom & pop stores around here only cater to power boaters. They sell white dock line and little else.

Other than durability and low stretch what qualities should I look for in line? Are there certain materials to look for or stay away from?

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The ox is slow but the earth is patient

You might try shooting an E-Mail to Matt Miller @ Hobie Cat.

Also, Layline is owned by a fella named Mike Kranz. He is a catamaran sailor and has been for years.
He would be a wealth of information, wisdom and knowledge.
If you shoot him an E- Mail, be patient and wait for a reply.
He is currently competing on a F-18 Capricorn in the Alter Cup at Gulfport. He should be back in the office sometime next week.

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If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, maybe it is time to water your own lawn.

You can also try the "Sale Line" page at Annapolis Performance Sailing (www.apsltd.com). They sell cut lines and spool ends at significant discounts.

http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d3000/e2238.asp

Yep, It is either Layline or APS (Annapolis Performance Sailing) ... if you preferr it is APS or Layline!!!

That little line for you jib ... you defiently what a non-stretch line 1/8"dia spectra ... vectra ... dynema ... amsteel ... All this lines have a rating above 2000lbs @ 1/8" dia ... good stuff

A piece of personal advise: Listen to what MUST5427 has to say .... Stephen knows more about a H18 then just about anyone else ... He is "A MASTER"!!! and there are only two other gentlemen, Ken Marshak and Jim Sohn on that VERY short list. I on the other hand am not even close w/ those gentlemen ... yet. But I am still trying!

Harry

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

Harry, you are too kind..... those two guys are better by accident than I am, on purpose.

However, I am honored to have my name is mentioned in the same post with those two gentlemen.

(as long as if it doesn't include the words "and then Stephen lost the protest )

BTW, keep your fingers crossed for me, I'm gonna race a 16 this weekend for the very first time. I hope I can stay as close to Jim Sohn while we are on the 16's as I can stay to him when we are sailing on the 18's.

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If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, maybe it is time to water your own lawn.

Stephen,

The H16 is a different "animal" then the H18 so only advise I can give you is: 1) have someone who is really good on a H16 help you w/ the set-up as that is critical because of the lack of adjustments to the sails on the water makes it hard to overcome a poor initial set-up 2) pay careful attention to your boat's attitude; heel ... pitch!!! 3) Do not let Jim "foot" on you ... you stay with him, footing also as required. I watched him just foot away on those starts at the H18NA's last year from Glenn Ross and yourself... gaining seperation ... and then he is GONE!!!! ( In the last race Jim came charging down the line and gave a up-close and personal lesson to "Dakota Dave" and myself of how it is done!!!!)

Do say hello to Jim for me ... I look forward to my next lesson the next time I have the pleasure of racing against "Master Sohn".

It's not very good advise ... but it is all I can offer

I hope you get to "BUY THE ICE CREAM".

Harry

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

Quick thought,I just re-lined my whole boat and used good line from both Jeremy's shop and Windtoys .I went with the same downhaul from murrays,unless they gave you a very short piece, mine came with enough
line to be reached by crew very easily all the way to the edge of the hull
on both sides.I was going to lengthen it so I could adjust while trapped out,until I found out that unless you have sail tape on your luff like the new sails have ,it really is only crancking down the lower panels tight.So I set it loose if I want power and really pull it in if I want to depower the sail but I dont fiddle with it much during the day unless conditions change or I put more or less people on the boat.
Do yourself a favor and get good mainsheet line.I put yale light 3/8 on my boat and love it. Not only has it saved me a capsize or two by running through the sheaves fast but it does not absorb water ,so it stays light .If it goes overboard it is very easy to whip back up on the tramp.Well worth the money.I also used all different color lines,it really helps someone that doesn't know sailing terms with which line to pull or uncleat.
shawn

I just replaced virtually all my lines and yes, it was expensive. The one line where you wany virtually no stretch is your main halyard, it's hard enough to hook and unhook without line stretching. I went with 1/4" Dyneema for this. I love the Robline pictured above, 9mm for the main sheet and 7mm for the jib. It feels good in your hand and doesn't kink.

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H18 #4549 Catasaurus