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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:56 am 
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Using your photos...

Image

Cleanly rigged 6:1 system. Each additional purchase ratio makes pulling the sail in easier, but requires more line and doesn't feed out as well. 6:1 is the current standard for Hobie 16, but using two triple blocks rather than stacked as shown. Triples allow more mast rake aft for better over all performance. With these, you should rake the mast aft till the blocks touch together or nearly do when fully tensioned.

Image

Move the bolt / plate forward to hold the rudder forward in the lower casting. Too loose and floppy and the upper arm disengages without tripping the cam open. Rudder movement aft causes more "weather helm", boat pulls hard to windward and you fight it. Rudders forward balances the helm for easier and more positive steering.

Image

Jib "traveler" adjustment. from my earlier post...

Quote:
On the jib traveler... You are missing the bungee that pulls the cars to center. The traveler (White) line and cleat pulls them outboard and the bungee pulls back towards the mast. You can use a single length (of Bungee) between the two cars or two separate lengths from each car to opposite corner casting.

Leave them close to the mast for upwind sailing and all the way outboard for down wind sailing. Some high wind techniques call for moving the car outboard a bit when sailing upwind.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:10 pm 
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Location: Grand Rapids, MICHIGAN
Thanks for the info - it was helpful. I didn't get the bungee - missing- until I went out and started looking at the jib setup - I thought if there is a bungee - it's need some sort of STOP/cleat - and upon closer inspection of those little plastic corner things that the cords run through - I noticed there is a little plastic cleat in there. So I added a (so far temporary) bungee (Which is a bit to short and to tight) but works) and I can now release and pull the front cars... (neat) not sure how necessary this is. (as I don't know what wind conditions to change them in) but at least it works. I can decide later if I want to lock them in place or keep the exsisting adjustment as is.

One thing I wonder about is my down haul on my main sail... I pull it (not all that hard) and it goes all the way to the tie off cleat. (or what ever those are called) So down against it I can get the cord in to tie it off - I have to release it some to tie it. I've seen some pulley blocks for this purpose which seems to imply that we should have a LOT OF down haul?

Far more than I have. Whats up with my tie off being so high? The sail is to the top of the mast and the 2nd metal catch is in the pin at the top of the mast. So I'm raised all the way. Any ideas why I have limited down haul? sail height change over the years? I have a sail from a later boat. This isn't a problem on my older boat with its original sail.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:44 pm 
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Rojoyinc wrote:
I can now release and pull the front cars... (neat) not sure how necessary this is. (as I don't know what wind conditions to change them in) but at least it works. I can decide later if I want to lock them in place or keep the existing adjustment as is.


mmiller wrote:
Leave them close to the mast for upwind sailing and all the way outboard for down wind sailing. Some high wind techniques call for moving the car outboard a bit when sailing upwind.


----------------

Rojoyinc wrote:
One thing I wonder about is my down haul on my main sail... I pull it (not all that hard) and it goes all the way to the tie off cleat. (or what ever those are called) So down against it I can get the cord in to tie it off - I have to release it some to tie it. I've seen some pulley blocks for this purpose which seems to imply that we should have a LOT OF down haul?


Likely the cleat has slipped up the mast track. It is secured by screws with square nuts in the track. You can loosen, lower and re-tension. The typical mast has a black band marking the max downhaul (racing rules, but rough guide). The downhaul cleat should be positioned at the same height as the halyard cleats. There should be about 8-12" between the cleat and bottom of the sail when fully tensioned. Stock downhaul line is 5' long and is used in 3:1 purchase. Considerable effort is needed to tension this properly. Basics: Remove horizontal wrinkles from the sail. Tensioning the main sheet can help you get the downhaul properly tensioned. More downhaul the windier it gets.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:00 pm 
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What lake are you on in N.C.? I thought the boat numbers were NC.


Last edited by Tom King on Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:49 pm 
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Location: Grand Rapids, MICHIGAN
Cleat is in mast track - it's centered on the black line? should it be?
I can't change the screws - dunno why, but old owner has caulk or something in those holes. I think the rivits may have been loose and he re-attached it somehow? I see a dark goop in the cleat holes. (not sure if there are screwed under the goop). My jib cleat on the mast is also extremely loose. I think there are rivits holding it - (I Can't tighten) not sure what is needed to re-rivit - never have done it before. (riviting)


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:06 am 
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would you have any pict of your trap set up ie where lines go and where they are connected to.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:57 pm 
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Location: Grand Rapids, MICHIGAN
Hi Zach I'll shoot some this week - as I need to shoot some of my new 7:1 system. I just installed a 6:1 block from a HObie 18 and love it.

I have no books, no knowledge of this stuff - Just bought a boat and then a 2nd one and just learning by doing.

My trap lines are connected to the mast tang - on each side of where the forestay is connected. They run down (2 lines on each side) to the tramp frame and run under it with a bungee - that connects the two port side trap lines to the two starboard side trap lines. I crossed the bungee's under the boat to make a "X" shapes in them to keep them somewhat in place and stopping them from going to far forward or aft on the trap frame.

I gotta say - this stuff was all SO scrarey to me at first... raising the mast on the first boat? I had new clue what all those shroud wires were and felt that mast was gonna come down on our heads. Well got it up - dropped the boat off the trailer into the lake at the ramp - pulled it ot the doc with the wave runner and just started tinkering. Had the trap lines in a box the seller handed me and - well put em where it seemed logical. I knew so little at first that I didn't know that you need to lock the rudders DOWN VERTICALLY - and left them pointing aft out back of the boat- MAN - talk about heavy helm! - It was like a tug of war trying to hold the tiller. Couldn't find the answer - didn't get help on here when I asked if I should have that much PULL on the tiller, eventually just stumbled into the fact that a rudder CLICKED down - ah - ha moment! From that point on it was like WOW!- the tiller is actually netural. I assumed it should be but had no idea if it was suppose to pull hard to the side as it did before I locked the rudders down. I just ordered a new tramp - and my next learning experience will be trying to lace the new one on my newer boat and to move the used one on the newer boat to the really nasty one on my older boat. I Also want to remove the bungee lacing that was used - I HATE IT.

Ordered hobie tramp, new rope lacing for 2 boats, all new sheet lines. I love that Hobie has all the parts of the boats, been tweaking - replaced a bad rudder cam, added spacer kit to rudders on older boat. Added tramp lines to both, I hope to buff the hulls clean this winter in the garage. Still have to find a leak in newer boats starboard hull. And need to try a righting bag. Bue before I buy one, I want to see if it actually works for me. 5 gallon pale a good test item? = )


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:00 am 
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royjoy wrote:
Cleat is in mast track - it's centered on the black line? should it be?


I already answered this one... in this thread...

mmiller wrote:
The downhaul cleat should be positioned at the same height as the halyard cleats.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:43 am 
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Location: Grand Rapids, MICHIGAN
Thanks will check it - I think it's much higher. I fear pulling the gook out of the holes... wondering what I'll find in there - hopefully screws.
Maybe old owner put gook in there thinking it would act as lock-tight.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:30 pm 
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Location: Southern VT/NH
A five gallon bucket will only weigh 40 lbs. Depending on your weight you will most likely need more. I just put my righting bucket to the test 3 times recently. It works amazingly easily. I was worried about pushing out with all that weight, but it was no problem. I have a racheting pulley which really helps, but I am thinking of going 2:1, because it is a tough lift as it is. You have to get the bag high enough so when you lean back and the boat starts coming over, it doesn't hit the water and quit working.

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'87 H16 Sail 89907
If you aren't sailing on the edge, you're taking up too much room.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:34 pm 
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does anyone have some extra Hobie 16 Sails?
Thanks,
858-395-2511
will@willnicholson.com


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:06 am 
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Location: Grand Rapids, MICHIGAN
Alfred - thanks yeah if I was sure it woudl work for me - I'd just order one.

Can you shoot pics? and your pulley rig? I'm 52 yr old - 170lb. 5'7"
I can't budge the boat using only righting line. And when two of us are on it (my 200lb son in law as well)
the hull seems to sink and the boat gets real tippy - fore and aft... and well last time it rolled around bow up... the rudders eventually came up full of silk and weeds. (we have shallow lake) So hoping this bag would work for me.
Would hate to spend the 70 bucks and find I still can't right it.



EXTRA SAILS? (I do - but not sure I want to part with) I do have one set that is quite tired that I'd sell cheap) but would need some repairs and TLC. I'd have to take pics. Came with my last boat (3 sails came with) one is original (tired) other two were much better, I use one and like the other as a spare.)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:07 am 
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Location: Grand Rapids, MICHIGAN
My cat sailing book arrived today. Will get into it. thanks for the recommendation.


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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:50 am 
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Location: Grand Rapids, MICHIGAN
I'm in Michigan and has been a great spring. We were sailing one of my 16's on March 31st!

Anyway - working on the boats, installed a new tramp - and now I want to re-attach the loose mast cleats. I pulled the caulk out and found rivits that are very loose.
I drilled one out to try it and - I can't get the new rivits to go in.

I went and bought the largest I could find. 3/8s I think. Anyway - the rivit tool can't seem to get a grip on the rivit shaft and can't seem to get down into the cleat.
Surely someone has done this - whats the secret? (Trick) to reinstalling the cleats?

thanks! (also looking for good price/used? Harken H194 - anyone?


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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:05 am 
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Location: Clinton, Mississippi
I've heard that you can get a smaller than standard diameter "nose" (what ARE those things called,anyway?) for your rivet gun that can get down into the recess. Otherwise you can't hold the rivet down properly to get a tight set, and may not even be able to get the jaws to bite. The last time I tried this, I was able to get one attached by stacking small washers in the recess. However, the jaws would barely bite, and the set was poor. The mast is being used as our club flagpole, though, so I called it "good enough."

Let us know when you get it figured out!

Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mi'sippi


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