Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:07 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Mast stepping
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:06 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:18 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Lima, OH
I just aquired my first Hobie 16. When I got it home my son and I tried to step the mast. We were using a winch on the trailer to help us. We would get the mast about half way up and it would want to fall to one side or the other. All rigging lines were in place while we were doing this. Is this normal for the mast to do or were we doing something wrong. Thanks for your assistance. I am sure we are going to learn a lot from this forum :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:38 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 606
Location: Saskatoon, Sk. Canada
Even if the shrouds are attached they wouldn't tighten up till the mast is almost all the way up. The mast is not all that heavy I think most sailors just walk the mast up from the back of the tramp, then have a helper attach the forestay, at least that is how I do it :wink: If you really want to use the winch you will have to have someone on the boat keeping the mast straight as it goes up. Good luck


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:39 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:43 am
Posts: 779
Location: St. Louis, MO
Yeah, I came up with a system that would allow you to raise the mast solo using the winch. After talking to others I decided that it was too complicated. The trick to using the winch is to use teh trap wires to stabilize the mast before the shrouds can. I used to tie them off to the front pylons while the mast was down. The mast could move a little but not enough to hinder stepping. If you read around on this forum you will see a more indepth discussion about solo stepping the mast.

_________________
Nick

Current Boat
In the market
Previous boats owned
'74 Pearson 30
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
St. Louis, MO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:56 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:53 pm
Posts: 334
Location: san diego
I love my H-16. Nice size, raised tramp (sail dry), assymetrical hulls (no dagger boards).... It's almost perfect! The only thing wrong with the H-16 is that heavy mast. It really does take two people to raise it & take it back down. Why doesn't Hobie Cat make a light weight carbon mast like the A Cat? I saw someone rig his A Cat in less than 20 minutes last year. He was out sailing 20 minutes after he arrived in the parking lot at Huntington Lake. AMAZING!
A 16 foot Hobie A Cat with a raised tramp & assymetrical hulls & kick up rudders would be the perfect catamaran.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:45 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:39 am
Posts: 471
Location: Finger Lakes, NY
Hey there RichandPat-

The “Admiral” and I sailed and raced 16's when we were much younger - like 30+ years ago. We were skinny little weaklings - like the "before" pictures in a Schwarznegger weight lifting ad. :roll: We weighed in at about 100lbs and 120lbs respectively. Having both of us raise the mast was easier than raising it myself, but I often sailed on my own and set up the boat myself. If we could do it, anyone can do it - especially if I could do it myself.

Here's the main trick: let leverage work for you. Make sure that the bow is lower than the stern and the side stays are in the TOP hole of the adjuster. With the bow down and the stays loose the mast leans forward enough so that it's own weight against the stays keeps it in place while you walk up and attach the bridle. No hurry. The more angle the better.

You angle the boat "bow down" in a number of ways. Here are a couple tried and true.

1) If your approach to the launch ramp is downhill: park on the hill and set up the mast. Watch for power lines of course
2) If the launch is level: disconnect the hitch and set the tongue on the ground. This happens to give you optimum angle by the way. Caution - Be sure to block your trailer tires – there is nothing more embarrassing than trying to set up a mast on a runaway trailer. Don’t ask how I know. :oops:
3) If you have a beach to work from: lay the mast on the and launch the boat with the mast laying on the boat. A bungee around the mast and front crossbar helps keep the mast from slipping all over. Pull the boat to your set up area and pull it on the beach stern first. Hint: use a couple life jackets under the mast at the crossbars- helps keep pressure off he tiller connector and protects the anodized finish. I like this method best because you are working at ground level and it is easier for someone to hand the mast up to your shoulder height.

There are also a few tricks you can learn from weight lifting moves that make the mast go up easier. Note that keeping your back straight is key.

If you are alone do a “squat thrust”: With a foot on the rear crossbar squat, grab the mast slightly bent-arm, back straight. Stand up quickly and use the upward momentum to continue lifting the mast to your shoulder as you step forward on the tramp. Move forward on the tramp with the mast on your shoulder until you are about halfway across then squat-thrust it upward to your hands, straighten your arms and push into place. Put your shoulder up to it just to be sure it will stay. Very little angle will keep it in place.

Handling the mast on take down is a little different. Get the boat at the bow-down angle and LOOSEN THE SIDE STAYS TO THE TOP HOLE OF THE ADJUSTER. Put your shoulder to the mast and back down with the mast on your shoulder. A little over halfway back on the tramp “roll” the mast to your waist and hang it straight arm - keeping your back straight. Set the mast down with squat move.

Yes, the mast is heavy. No it is not “easy”. But it is not that hard either. We use the same method on 18’s but those dang masts ARE heavy. :wink:

Good luck, sail fast!
8) -Stephen

PS - I agree with the carbon-fiber or kevlar mast idea. BUT a mast of that material could cost as much as half a new Hobie.

_________________
The fact that this windy world is largely covered in water obviously means that man was meant to sail.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:23 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:43 am
Posts: 779
Location: St. Louis, MO
Stephen is right. Use physics to help. I guess I am spoiled at 250 lbs. I think nothing of picking up the mast and setting it into place. I would use a stand about 8 ft from the sterns to support the mast while I lined up the mast step on the front cross bar. I had a winch on my trailer that I used, but after talking with others I resorted to using the jib halyard for solo stepping.

Alone I could rig my boat in 20 minutes. That's what sailing 4 times a week will do for you. How I yearn to be unemployed again :roll: My freind and I could launch 2 H16's from trailers in 20 minutes.

My 18 is a different story, I need help to step that mast. It's too long and too heavy to move around by myself. Once I the mast step pinned in place I'm fine, but I can't control that much weight spread out like that.

I know that not everyone is as large as me, but with a little practice, and ingenuity an H16 can be launched in 20 minutes from a trailer.

_________________
Nick

Current Boat
In the market
Previous boats owned
'74 Pearson 30
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
St. Louis, MO


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:18 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:39 am
Posts: 471
Location: Finger Lakes, NY
Hobie Nick wrote:
Alone I could rig my boat in 20 minutes. That's what sailing 4 times a week will do for you. How I yearn to be unemployed again :roll:


Amen brother!! :wink: :lol:

Man- when I had the time and the energy I didn't have the money.
Then I had the money and energy but didn't have the time.
One day I'll have the time and money but I'll be out of energy. :roll: 8)

I hurt so much from sailing this past weekend that I feel like I was beat with an ugly stick and left to die :lol:

_________________
The fact that this windy world is largely covered in water obviously means that man was meant to sail.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: widerisbetter is right!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:00 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:53 pm
Posts: 334
Location: san diego
Widerisbetter is right! I'm 62 years old & retired. People who own A-Cats don't have to resort to tricks when raising the mast & attaching the forestay. Since my wife is also getting older & I no longer have people at work to take out sailing, I usually sail single handed. I sail mostly on weekdays. I resort to tricks when I have to, but I'm usually able to find someone to help me connect or disconnect the forestay, etc. - usually it's meter maids, policemen, & homeless people.
An A-Cat is so light & simple to rig. My H-16 is in great shape, but if something awful happened to it I think I'd replace it with an A-Cat. I think I'd use it more for recreational sailing.
The Finger Lakes are beautiful. I was in Lakemont near Seneca Lake for about 6 months in 1961. Nice place in the summertime. Richard


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:21 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:45 am
Posts: 759
Location: Clinton Lake Lawrence, KS
Geez, you guys make me feel like a wimp!

Paul and I horsed up the 18 mast the first day we had it and that was it, I quickly found a pulley for the top of the mast stand on the trailer.

Last Sunday I took him back out to show him the 16 I'd just made a deal for, and then proceeded to show him how simple it is to rig compared to the 18.

Well I should have had him up on the tramp, because after my fatherly moment, my back still hurts right in between my shoulder blades. I think it's from that last push up with my hands above my head. At 160 I don't have enough *** to shoulder it up.

Rich, I'm with you, that sucker is heavy. I'm just barely a master and would like to make it to grand master with my back not blown out. I know I'll be tempted to single hand the 16 (especially since the boys are all back in school) but I'm doing the home made easy rite for the 16 also.

_________________
hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:33 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:15 pm
Posts: 218
Location: Sacramento, Ca
After reading these “tricks” something made me wonder. Is it possible for the mast to fall forward? I assume not because when it’s fully stepped there is no shroud or stay on the aft side of the mast. So what keeps the mast from falling?

With the boat on the trailer, the tongue and bow down I assume that you’re on the tramp when lifting the mast. Now what happens as the mast travels past vertical but before it is in the fully stepped position? The way I’m picturing things, it seems that once the mast is past vertical the mast will fall forward to the fully stepped position or fall forward all together and come crashing down onto the roof of my truck. Does the pin that I use when stepping keep all hell from breaking loose. What part of the picture am I missing?

I’d love to learn this technique and be able to step the mast on my own because there are many times when I’d like to sail but no one’s free. I heard rumor that there was a video out on the net showing the technique. Is this true?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:51 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:45 am
Posts: 759
Location: Clinton Lake Lawrence, KS
Dude,

http://www.hcana.hobieclass.com/site/ho ... manual.pdf

Page 13 has a good picture and description of technique.

That little stainless steel hinge piece that you put the step pin through moves up to support while you raise the mast from horizontal up to about 45 degrees or so then falls down under the weight of the mast above it. The "ball" on the bottom of the mast is then lined up perfect fof the "cup" on the mast step, on top of the crossbar. You can see in this picture the forward "wall" of the base lines up nicely with the bottom of the mast preventing it from falling forward.

Dont forget to put a teflon chip in the cup so the mast will rotate easily and dont forget to pull the pin out (aftere you step it) so the mast will rotate.

There are two holes in that stainless step hinge us the lower one marked 16.

I'm glad your asking all these questions, go slow, think through what you are going to do before hand. Most boats get damaged when they are out of the water.

_________________
hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Excellent post John
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:07 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:39 am
Posts: 471
Location: Finger Lakes, NY
Great link and great encouragement for the Dude!

That mast will stand right where you stick it, the side stays will keep it from falling sideways and it won't go any further forward. Think about this also: if the mast doesn't stop going forward, what happens when you tension the bridle... :wink: Cool?

As John said "Most boats get damaged when they are out of the water" - that's a fact. Most cars get damaged when someone pulls a quick pin from a side stay because they have had an oat soda or two beyond their limit and the mast falls over sideways onto the roof of the car - :oops:

_________________
The fact that this windy world is largely covered in water obviously means that man was meant to sail.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:57 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:18 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Lima, OH
Gentleman................Thanks a million for all the advice. My son and I tried to step the maast again yesterday and got the job done. We did it a little quicker that we did before and things well GREAT. We were so confident that we even put up the main sheet and jib sheet. Again........THANKS to everyone and GREAT sailing :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:00 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:15 pm
Posts: 218
Location: Sacramento, Ca
Holy Cow!!! There's two Hobie Dude's. Well I'm the guy with the space in his name.

I've stepped my mast many times, but I've always had to have help and have done it on flat ground. I still have a question about using the trailer tipping trick and stepping the mast solo. Once the mast is past vertical what do you do. Obviously you aren't pushing on the mast anymore because it would just fall forward and slam into the upright position. Is there a way to control these last several feet of stepping? Perhaps the angle isn't that severe. Perhaps I should just try it with a buddy a few times. I do understand that once it's fully stepped gravity holds it in place and I can take my time, hop off the boat and connect the forestay.

It's just the part from vertical to fully stepped that I don't understand. If anyone could help me figure it out I'd be one happy sailor.

Thanks,

Adam


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:58 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:43 am
Posts: 779
Location: St. Louis, MO
On the catsailor.com website in teh Hobie 16 forum there is an excellent discussion about solo mast stepping. I described my homemade EZ step system while another gentelman described using the jib halyard to help. His way is much easier (and cheaper).

Check out the last four posts in this forum

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Test&Number=55447&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1

_________________
Nick

Current Boat
In the market
Previous boats owned
'74 Pearson 30
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
St. Louis, MO


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group