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 Post subject: RUSTY RIVET MANDRELS
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:43 am 
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I just installed new monel rivets from Hobie. All but one of the mandrels are rusting. After a few days in a salt water environment, this is very ugly. Sealing the ends will not stop the rust from bleeding out from the inside. The unused rivets show that the mandrels are all magnetic. It will be costly to drill them out and to remove the rusting mandrels floating around inside the many type of extrusions they may have been used on.

I can send a picture, if anyone wants to post it. I don't see how to post pictures from my PC without sending them to an external site.


Last edited by 1776 on Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RUSTY RIVET MANDRELS
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:03 pm 
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Location: Charlottesville, VA
I can post them. PM on the way.

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 Post subject: Re: RUSTY RIVET MANDRELS
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:00 am 
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Here they are. I agree that would look pretty nasty if all of my rivets did that.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: RUSTY RIVET MANDRELS
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:19 am 
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This has been a little more than disappointing after refinishing my 2008 aka's by sanding down, priming, painting, baking in the sun for two weeks, then installing new eyelet posts and rivets, only to see this after a few days of use.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSTY RIVET MANDRELS
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
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Location: Detroit, MI
Obviously, Hobie Cat doesn't make the rivets - where did you acquire them from and where did they get theirs?

The dealer I frequent has just a bin full of rivets and you really don't know where he got them from.

Matt M. may be able to shed some light on how they supply bulk rivets to dealers.

Unless I need just a couple, I normally get my rivets from a reputable supplier like Hanson Rivet (http://www.hansonrivet.com/ - which is where I think Hobie Cat gets theirs) or McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com)

The problem with Hanson is their high minimum quantity (usually like 100). But they have everything.

McMaster has smaller quantities available, but they are really expensive.


Last edited by MBounds on Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RUSTY RIVET MANDRELS
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:45 pm 
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Apparently they are from Mariner Sails in Texas.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: RUSTY RIVET MANDRELS
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:47 pm 
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These are Hobie parts and Hobie part numbers from Hobie as specified in the Hobie parts catalog for the specified application. The dealer said that they never had this problem before. I stripped the Aka's prior to refinishing, so the collar rivets were also replaced.

The Dealer has been very good to deal with and said they would work to resolve the issue, starting with Hobie


Last edited by 1776 on Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RUSTY RIVET MANDRELS
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:05 pm 
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Location: Detroit, MI
1776 wrote:
These are Hobie parts and Hobie part numbers from Hobie as specified in the Hobie parts catalog for the specified application. The dealer said that they never had this problem before. I stripped the Aka's prior to refinishing, so the collar rivets were also replaced.

Just because the bag has a Hobie part number on it doesn't mean the rivet was supplied by Hobie Cat.

Hobie parts come in a bag / display card like this:
Image

I could print a bunch of generic labels with Hobie part numbers, stick them on similar plastic bags to the ones in your photos (which can be bought by the 100 from http://www.uline.com) and toss in a few rivets from whatever bulk supplier I happened to get them from and sell them to whomever.

However, Mariner Sails is a reputable dealer and you should speak directly with Aris Tsamis (the owner) or John Webster to sort it out.

I have to say that those rivets are cheap. Comparable rivets from McMaster-Carr in those quantities cost more than a dollar each.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSTY RIVET MANDRELS
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:13 pm 
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Location: Oceanside, California
My understanding is that some rivets require stronger shanks. A soft stainless shank will pop sooner. These simply have more carbon in them and then will show surface rust. Try applying some Magica... it is Magic rust remover.

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 Post subject: Re: RUSTY RIVET MANDRELS
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:09 pm 
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mmiller wrote:
My understanding is that some rivets require stronger shanks. A soft stainless shank will pop sooner. These simply have more carbon in them and then will show surface rust. Try applying some Magica... it is Magic rust remover.


So that means that all new Hobie rivets will end up like mine, or just some? And how strange that one is not rusting? It is my understanding that all marine quality hardware is non magnetic and passivated. I never had a problem with any West Marine hardware from any of their suppliers showing any signs of rust. My understanding is that Hobie will resolve this issue, and it will not be with magic.


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 Post subject: Re: RUSTY RIVET MANDRELS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:42 pm 
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Location: Oceanside, California
Some longer ones or monel may have the stronger (with more carbon) shank. We get supplies from a variety of vendors and I don't know exactly which would have that at this time. I'm just going by vague memory.

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 Post subject: Re: RUSTY RIVET MANDRELS
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:52 pm 
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Location: Oceanside, California
Quote:
And how strange that one is not rusting?


That is because the shank is popped inside the aka. The rivet itself is not rusting in any of the shots... it is the shanks that bleed a bit. Not structural.

Hobie is going to resolve? That would be me of course. I have offered (Mariner) to replace your Monel rivets that have carbon in the shanks for straight stainless rivets, Mariner will be contacting you.

We use different rivets for different applications. Over the years Monel has been specified so we also offer them.

Couple of internet quotes about this issue:

Quote:
Unlike Stainless Steel, Monel is mostly Nickel (67% Ni, 30% Cu, 1.4% Fe). Some Monel alloys (Monel K-500 for example) can be much stronger than 18-8 or 316 stainless steel. And yes, the monel rivets have a carbon steel shank.


Quote:
Monel won't react with the alum. like the stainless. As to the shank being steel. I have found the ones that are not steel tend to break off before the rivet is fully drawn tight. If you don't like the rusting shank, Neatly dab your 4200 there.

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Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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