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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:15 am
Posts: 500
Location: Saint John, NB Canada sailing on Washademoak Lake
Here's my situation:
- I don't race
- mast stays up all summer
- new short shrouds and old short forestay
- 10 hole adjuster for the shrouds
- 10 hole + 7 hole adjuster for the forestay
- putting the shroud pins 3rd hole from the top gives me decent rake

With that setup, I had to use the jib halyard with a piece of line to tighten the rig enough to be able to attach the forestay in the top hole of my 2 sections of chainplate.

So needless to say, the rig is tight before the jib goes up. It's good when not sailing because nothing is moving, but are there any disadvantages when sailing? I know I can't fine tune the rake with the tension on the jib, but I'm ok with that. Any other downside?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:43 am 
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Quote:
are there any disadvantages when sailing?


The jib luff wire should be tighter than the forestay for best up wind performance. If the jib luff wire is loose, you can't point as high.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:53 am 
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Location: Saint John, NB Canada sailing on Washademoak Lake
Thanks Matt.

If that's the worse that can happen, I can live with that.

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1978 Hobie 16 Keoke, sail# 36 84
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:11 pm 
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56kz2slow wrote:
So needless to say, the rig is tight before the jib goes up. It's good when not sailing because nothing is moving, but are there any disadvantages when sailing? I know I can't fine tune the rake with the tension on the jib, but I'm ok with that. Any other downside?


This is pretty much how my boat it rigged. I have the mew shorter shrouds and the old forestay with an extension on it. Even with the extension, I have to tighten the forestay with a "furniture clamp" in order to get it to connect to the bridle. As tight as it is, when my Aussie halyard is tightened, the forestay goes limp !!! I like this but for another reason. Should the halyard or the jib luff fail, I will still have a taut mast.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:19 pm 
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Location: Knoxville, TN
When did Hobie change the rigging on the H16? As I understand it the forestay got longer, shrouds shorter, the jib was cut a little differently. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Did the bridal wires or chain plates change?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:31 pm 
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MVD wrote:
When did Hobie change the rigging on the H16? As I understand it the forestay got longer, shrouds shorter, the jib was cut a little differently. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Did the bridal wires or chain plates change?
There have been a couple of iterations of forestay lengthening / shroud shortening over the years. It's been fairly constant in the past five years (Matt M. knows the exact chronology).

Jib was recut in 2000. Chain plates have not changed, but the bridles were lengthened slightly just recently.

Almost all of these progressions/innovations have come from Australia.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:53 am 
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Changes have happened many times over the years.

Around 1982 mast steps were canted aft, forestays got longer and shrouds shorter. We simplified inventory a few time where different models (H17 and H16) had similar but slightly differing lengths.

Most recently (2009) bridles got a little longer, shrouds shorter, trap wires shorter.
These was the Worlds configuration in China last year. This also brought new boat production in Australia and here in the US back in sync.

Sails follow a similar change process. The jib has changed many times over the years to allow for more mast rake.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:26 pm
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Location: Harsens Island, Michigan
With all these changes over the years, and all these older cats around, and everyone says "when you buy an older boat, you should replace all the rigging" I am surprised that they aren't all sold as a kit. I still haven't replaced mine yet, but spent over an hour looking thru the parts catalog trying to figure out what all I needed to replace and what it would cost. It was a little confusing for a newbie, what with all the US and Australian versions of everything. Had there been a kit that I knew would all work together properly on my boat for a fixed price, I probably would have ordered it all already.

It's not really a complaint, just some thoughts on how to make it easier for us to spend our money! :D

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:56 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, FL
ASDASC wrote:
With all these changes over the years, and all these older cats around, and everyone says "when you buy an older boat, you should replace all the rigging" I am surprised that they aren't all sold as a kit. I still haven't replaced mine yet, but spent over an hour looking thru the parts catalog trying to figure out what all I needed to replace and what it would cost. It was a little confusing for a newbie, what with all the US and Australian versions of everything. Had there been a kit that I knew would all work together properly on my boat for a fixed price, I probably would have ordered it all already.

It's not really a complaint, just some thoughts on how to make it easier for us to spend our money! :D



I agree!

And a question for Matt along this same subject:

I have a 1982 H16. I will be buying new standing rigging in the spring. And if I can swing it, new sails as well. I'm guessing that the new sails will be cut to the most recent dimensions. (If that is an incorrect assumption please correct me.) The question is, if I replace ALL standing rigging will the latest cable lengths work on my boat? Thereby accomodating the most recent jib dimensions.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:46 am 
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Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
Same Question. I may be picking up a 16 soon, basically buying two and put them together (One has trashed hulls but 2005 model sails).


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:18 pm 
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You would be much better off running the mast slightly more upright so that the jib luff can be properly tensioned. The forestay wire should have ZERO tension on it while sailing. It's only purpose is to support the mast when the jib isn't hoisted. I always cringe when I see a H16 sailing around with the jib luff sagging all over the place.

The pointing ability and boat handling will suffer big time if the jib is sagging and that will negate any advantage that might have been gained from the extra mast rake.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:42 pm 
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56kz2slow wrote:
Any other downside?

Yeah, if you want to keep those sails then when it's time to replace the standing rigging you'll need to have them custom made to the lengths of the originals, if you can figure out what those lengths are. Adding chain plates is another way to add length, but that looks kind of crappy.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:58 am 
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Location: Harsens Island, Michigan
Matt can correct me if I am wrong, but I also think you have to be careful with mast rake on a pre-1982 boat due to the mast base being more upright. If you lean the mast too much the base could come out or bind more, limiting mast rotation, and therefore performance.

It almost become cost ineffective to buy an older boat and start buying new sails, rigging, rudders, blocks, etc to try and make it competitive. Just enjoy the heck out of it, if you want to race, understand that you have a disadvantage, and when you have honed your skills to where you are consistant, but no longer improving on the 'winners', then decide if you want to invest in a whole new rig. Perhaps one of the very competitive guys only uses their boat for 3-4 years between new ones, and you can upgrade from a 1979 to a 2000+ boat as an interim step. Once you have a boat within the last 10 years, if the sails are newer, you should be on level enough playing ground to know if you have what it takes to compete on national levels.

Just my thoughts, anyway.

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