Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:24 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: spinnaker
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:19 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:11 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Southern Saskatchewan Canada
Good evening,

With the sailing season over here I am already thinkiing of next spring.

I was looking at a spinnaker snuffer system from hobie and had a couple questions.

Does the bar out the front have to be put up every time you set up or is it left on the boat even when trailering?

When you come about from a run how easiy and quickly can one actually get it tucked back into the pouch?

Lastly is it a worthy investment?

_________________
Dale Guthormsen

Where to be, On the Edge
2008 hobie 16


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spinniker
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:14 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 pm
Posts: 1661
Location: Northfield Minnesota
I haven't owned a H16 in quite a while, but I can't imagine sailing a catamaran with out a spinnaker. Going downwind becomes so much more enjoyable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spinniker
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:21 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:56 pm
Posts: 686
Location: Los Angeles
guthormsen wrote:
Does the bar out the front have to be put up every time you set up or is it left on the boat even when trailering?

Yes, the bar (spi pole) has to be set up every time you rig as it is supported by the main bridle. It is usually attached to the front crossbar with a pin.

guthormsen wrote:
When you come about from a run how easiy and quickly can one actually get it tucked back into the pouch?

If spinnaker rig is set up properly and properly tuned, the retrieval of the spi into the pouch (snuffer) can be done quickly with some practice. In racing, I think there's a rule that if it takes longer than 6 seconds, you're doing something wrong. However, in recreational sailing, you just want to make sure you don't get it caught up in any of the rigging. Timing is important.

guthormsen wrote:
Lastly is it a worthy investment?

The answer to that question is relative. How much fun are you going to have and how much is that fun worth. First, it's not class legal in the US (don't know about Canada) so it would have to be strictly for recreational use.

The fun factor??? On that issue, for me, I'm kinda like Karl !!! Now that I've had one, I can't see having a boat without one. It's like having a completely different boat. Downwind, it's like sailing a runaway freight train and I haven't even sailed my spi in high winds yet !!! (contrary to popular opinion, the spi decreases the H16's propensity to pitch pole but that doesn't mean that it won't) It can also add to the fun factor when there's very little wind, a good time to practice, by the way. All being said, I would make sure that my sailing skills were adequate in sailing without one before attempting to sail with one. There's a definite learning curve involved that throws some of what you've already learned out the window. Well, at least it may modify it somewhat !!! :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=66DZB5bhg2s

_________________
Image
Happy Sailing,

David


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spinnaker
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:53 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 12:27 am
Posts: 25
Location: Denmark
In Denmark almost all HC16 have a spi!...
It is so much fun, and more action for the crew.
i NEVER take the pole off when trailing . just drop the mast -almost like a "bottle ship model" and pull all the wires forward . it is so easy to rig ( maybe not the correct way to do it but it works great.)
i also leave the spi in the snuffer bag with all lines on.
if you need tips for rigging/sailing it the best way please email me.
TO SPI OR NOT TO SPI....THATS THE Q! :wink:

_________________
Kind regards Flemse


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spinnaker
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:53 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:11 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Southern Saskatchewan Canada
do you have any pictures to share??

_________________
Dale Guthormsen

Where to be, On the Edge
2008 hobie 16


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spinnaker
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:26 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 12:27 am
Posts: 25
Location: Denmark
Not really.. :?

_________________
Kind regards Flemse


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spinnaker
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:40 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:58 pm
Posts: 8
I'm new to sailing a spin but it definitely is very fun! I trailer my cat with the spi pole still attached. What I did was use a bungee that attaches to the front vertical bar on my trailer that holds the mast and I loop it under the spi pole and behind the wires that attach to the bow tangs. When I am taking the mast down I'll attach the bungee and then lower my mast (I solo rig so I have a 5' line with a stainless steel snap ring on each end that attaches to my jib's tack shackle that's left on my chain plate and the other end on the jib aussie halyard ...I disconnect the forestay while the jib halyard is taught and cleated, then I uncleat the jib halyard and lower my mast) ...the bungee catches the spi pole and suspends it in the air. When traveling I even leave my spinnaker in the snuffer bag and I just tie a slip knot on the snuffer line to prevent it from coming out. The pole just bobs up and down while I'm trailering.

The above saves me so much time with rigging as I dont have to run the spin halyard or set the pole up. I will take pictures of it later today before I leave for my trip and try to post them this weekend.

Flemse, I'll be emailing you soon! I have tons of questions about flying the kite! This year I did Hiram's Haul and didnt do too bad on the first day of the race while flying the chute ...but I still want to learn more and become better.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spinnaker
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:23 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:58 pm
Posts: 8
Image

You can see the green bungee that holds the spi pole in this picture, along with the support wires attached to the bow tangs still and the tack still tied to the sail (I untie the head of the sail and tie the line to the swivel cleat on my front cross bar to give some slack in the line in order to trailer the mast.)

Image

In this picture you can see my halyard goes through a pad eye that has a ring in it. I didnt like pulling the snuffer line up through the trampoline as it seemed to just add another friction area when raising the spin, so I added that hardware to the cross bar and it works perfectly (can pull from different angles.) For peace of mind I just tie a slip not on the line to prevent the spin from coming out when I'm not sailing (if I plan to sit for a period of days I'll take the spin out.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spinnaker
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:36 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 1206
Location: sarasota,fl
guthormsen :
I don't have an H16 my boat's a TI, but the furling Gennaker rig I have setup on my TI I think would work well on your H16. I modeled it after looking at spin rigs I saw on some H18s I used to have a snuffer bag, but it always seemed to be more work that it was worth and I seldom used the spinnaker as a result. Now with the furler anytime I'm close to a downwind (90 -270) and can use the spin, I throw the spin up, then quickly furl it back down (it takes maybe 2 seconds) when done. The way it works is very simple, it's just a 20 ft length of PVC tubing with a rope through it. The rope (you will need probably 35 ft long or so) is clipped to the top halyard then ran through the tubing, then through a loop at the tip of the bowsprit, then back to the frame cross bar (the strongest point on the boat) and tied off. When you drop your mast just untie the rope from the frame and let the mast down. My 130 sq ft Assymetric Spinnaker is tied to the pole at the head and clew (nothing in the middle). The tack is tied to a long loop rope ran through pulleys at the back left and right of the boat (as far back as possible). When jibing from left to right side the tack line is just pulled through from the left to the right side and the sail follows. Once set I cleat the line or just hold it. Or you can quickly furl up then back out once you've changed direction. When the sail furls up it just wraps around the pole, even in high winds. The furler is just a piece of 1 1/2" PVC tubing with a single rope. On your H16 you could probably run it with a 2/1 ratio so you don't need so much furl line. Just don't do like I did the first time out, I tried furling in 18-20 knot winds and the furler line snagged on something and broke. The furler line I used was too light, and broke, what a mess that was. Since then I've used it quite a few times with no issues, even in high winds. I have no idea if it would be class legal, or do I know how big a gennaker you can get away with on an H16.

Here is a pic of my furler.
Image

Here is a pic of the G2 Gennaker deployed.
Image
Hope this helps
Bob


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spinnaker
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:15 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:11 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Southern Saskatchewan Canada
Good Morning,

Sorry for the slow reply!! thank you so much for the pictures and explanations!!

The idea of using a furler is a great idea. Did you make that furler? I am always imprressed with DIY projects that acutually work!! that little boat of yours must fly at times!!

thanks again!!

_________________
Dale Guthormsen

Where to be, On the Edge
2008 hobie 16


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spinnaker
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:22 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:11 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Southern Saskatchewan Canada
I have plenty of experience sailing in rough waters and farely strong winds. Because of the roughness of the water I do not single hand out on the wire.

I went back and reread the posts again.
could you extrapulate the following quote a wee bit??



"There's a definite learning curve involved that throws some of what you've already learned out the window".

_________________
Dale Guthormsen

Where to be, On the Edge
2008 hobie 16


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spinnaker
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:41 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 606
Location: Saskatoon, Sk. Canada
I've always wanted to fly a spin, unfortunately I sail alone 99% of the time and you really need help with sail management with a spin in higher winds. Still I've always thought a smaller spin on a roller reefing setup kind of like you have would work on my getaway. Not so much extra sail to contend with but more than the small jib has, more like a gennaker.

_________________
06 getaway -- always remember, man with both feet in mouth have no leg to stand on.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spinnaker
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:47 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:56 pm
Posts: 686
Location: Los Angeles
guthormsen wrote:
"There's a definite learning curve involved that throws some of what you've already learned out the window".

An example, you typically would sail downwind with the travelers (both jib & main) out. With a spin, you have the jib traveler in & main traveler barely off center if at all and sheeted in. Otherwise, it would obstruct the airflow to the spin. Additionally, the mast needs the support of the main being sheeted in, as there are not many mast that could support the tension of a spin by itself. I heard that there's a Nacra mast that can but I wouldn't try it !!!

Also, you and your crew will have to be in absolute sync. Otherwise, you'll spend a lot of time either going absolutely nowhere or in the water. Even though the mast rake & spin reduces the likelyhood of a pitchpole, it WILL still happen !!! It's going to take time, just like everything else !!! :lol:

_________________
Image
Happy Sailing,

David


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spinnaker
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:51 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:58 pm
Posts: 8
Sailing with a spin brings new life to the boat! I love it with and without crew. It does take a little getting use to like DavidBell said ...make sure you don't follow your normal instinct to turn up into the wind when things get crazy ...TURN DOWN! Hah, you'll see ..I think everyone makes that mistake at least once (speaking from experience.)

Once you have your boat set up to your liking, it's not bad at all to sail. As DavidBell said, just sheet your main in and make sure both the main and jib are traveled inboard (I like to leave my jib traveled out just slightly to make sure I'm not backwinding my main.) From there, just let your spin sheet out until it looks like it's about to collapse and sheet in just a little bit. As you're doing this, start heading upwind SLOWLY (like a degree or two at a time) as there is a delay in power. Once you make the adjustment, get a sense for how long the delay is till your boat speeds up ...keep heating it up till a hull starts to come out of the water (and at the same time, keep sheeting in and out to find that perfect spot.) Once you build up speed you should be able to turn down wind a bit more and maintain the speed.

Remember, keep playing with the sheet as you dont want to have it sheeted in too hard. I'm not sure if taletells would help or not? Dave?

Overall, it's a blast! Stay on that rear corner casting when it starts to heat up a lot!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spinnaker
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:58 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:06 pm
Posts: 1
Hello,

I am also looking at the spin kit from Hobie for the 16 and had a few questions. I am an experienced H16 sailor, but new to spin sailing.

1. Comptip vs all aluminum mast. Hobie says you can install a mast tang (the H14 mast tang) into the comptip, but this seems like a lot of pressure to put on fiberglass using rivets. Any comments on comptip vs aluminum mast with a spin?

2. Will my bow tangs be able to support the additional stress? Any issues with the hull tips not being strong enough?

3. I have read some forums from around 10 years ago talking about how the Hobie Europe spin sail is better than the US version. Is this true? Has this changed in the last 10 years?

Thanks!
Andy


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group