Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:36 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Mainsheet block sticking
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:39 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:14 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Since I got my h16, I have had trouble getting the mainsheet to release when uncleated. I crashed into the shore once becuase I was unable to free the sheet. At first I thought it was because my mainsheet was a large diameter cotton rope, but after changing it to a 3/8" rope, I realized that the rachet was sticking. It will turn, but with great difficulty. It's the original "seaway" block. I could not find anyway to take it apart to lubricate it. Is there any kind of trick to get the rachet lubricated? Thanks.

_________________
'73 Hobie 16
1970's styrofoam snark

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:09 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:50 am
Posts: 218
Location: Lititz, PA/Somers Point, NJ
If I remember right the only way to take them apart is to drill out the rivets. If your going to go that far you might as well convert it to the poor man's low profile block. Really easy conversion with only a couple bucks in stainless bolts (to replace the rivets).

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7964&start=15

_________________
'73 hobie 16 restored 2011
'00 Seaswirl fishin boat


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:28 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2406
Location: Jersey Shore
What I gather from your post is that the block is not turning smoothly in either direction, right? Even with the ratchet turned off?

If that's the case, then I doubt there's much you can do unless you drill out the rivets as mentioned above. Either dirt/debris is inside the block, or an internal mechanical component has failed. You can try squirting some lube inside, but I doubt it's going to solve your problem. You would really need to open up the block and either clean or repair it.

Honestly, if I were you, I'd seriously consider replacing these blocks (at least the ratchet block). They're close to 30 years old, so you've certainly gotten your money's worth out of them. Besides, there are blocks available these days that are much better than those old Seaways and they aren't terribly expensive. You'll likely get another 30 years out of a decent pair of Harken or Ronstan blocks and the performance will blow away the Seaways. You'll have more fun on the water and be able to sail safer and with more confidence knowing your mainsheet system is working the way it should.

sm


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:13 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:14 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Reelknotty: My blocks say seaway, do not resemble the ones that were in that conversion thread. Both the top and ratcheting block have 3 pulleys, so does that mean they are 6:1? The ratcheting pulley is too the side, not in the middle. It only has two blocks so it looks like a low profile system to me. Both blocks are seaway blocks.

Srm: I tried squirting lube into it, but it didn't make a big difference. I am going to try to soak it in oil. I would love to buy a new block, but that is an absolute last resort, since I'm on a very tight budget.

_________________
'73 Hobie 16
1970's styrofoam snark

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:41 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:14 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Fort Myers, FL
I've been looking around the web, and all the seaway blocks I am seeing look different than mine. They all have two blocks on the boom and a different block on the traveler. Maybe you guys can shed some light? I am also unsure if I have rigged the main sheet through the blocks properly. If any of you know of a diagram for these blocks, it would be helpful. The Harken block rigging in the H16 assembly manual is different than mine. Thanks.

Image
Image

_________________
'73 Hobie 16
1970's styrofoam snark

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:27 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 287
Location: Boston Ma / Newport RI
Get Harken blocks, don't fuss around with drilling rivets and cobbling something together, it will probably fail and ruin your day, at the very least...

_________________
Blair T

I love these calm moments before the storm, it reminds me of Beethoven...


'02 Hobie Tiger USA 1152


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:56 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:50 am
Posts: 218
Location: Lititz, PA/Somers Point, NJ
yours are newer than mine. mine are white and I had a triple on the bottom witht he ratchet in the middle and 2 singles on the boom.

Image

could it be that with the ratchet on the end of the stack you could be twisting and binding?

I'm like you and would rather fix it than spend money. Chances are its just some dirt/sand or even a thread from your old main sheet that wrapped around the bearings. Drilling them out and replacing the rivets with bolts is about as simple as it gets. One thing to note is... don't let your 4 year old pick them up, not once but twice, after you take the rivets out. Those needle bearings go EVERYWHERE.

_________________
'73 hobie 16 restored 2011
'00 Seaswirl fishin boat


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:58 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:58 am
Posts: 81
from your picture (pyroboy), yes you have a 6:1 system. The other pic is 5:1. I had never seen a ratchet on the side of the block,. ratchet "sticking" shouldn't be the issue when releasing, given that when the ratchet is on it is not supposed to turn anyways when you release the sheet.
Put the rope in each of the blocks independently and test how easy they turn under load, and let us now. If one of those gets stuck, then the release will be very difficult.
With the ratchet to the side seems that the sheet configuration is very easy, given that you start at one side and pass it through the next, block, next block, next block and racthet (it gets to be more complex when the ratchet is on center).
can you send a picture of the blocks rigged with the mainsheet?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:25 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:50 am
Posts: 375
FYI, Harkenstore.com has has a nice 57MM triple Cam-Matic setup on sale for $109 (Model HSB447 which is regularly priced at $217). Search Menu/Store/Closeouts/Blocks. Good luck.

_________________
Irie, mon....
'82 Hobie 18 SE with '85 Nationals Prism (White) sails
'73 Laser HID# 3463
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:55 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:10 am
Posts: 649
Location: Indianapolis, IN
BrianCT wrote:
FYI, Harkenstore.com has has a nice 57MM triple Cam-Matic setup on sale for $109 (Model HSB447 which is regularly priced at $217). Search Menu/Store/Closeouts/Blocks. Good luck.

Hope this isn't threadjacking but I think it is relevant to pyroboy08's original question:

Would this block work on a Hobie 16? It has a becket on the top and the block typically used (HAR2629) does not. Correct me if I'm wrong but would you be able to do a 7:1 purchase using the becket? What if you just wanted 6:1? Also, if I understand correctly, these are not ratchet blocks as are normally used these days.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:12 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2406
Location: Jersey Shore
Quote:
could it be that with the ratchet on the end of the stack you could be twisting and binding?

I think it's highly likely that this is part of the problem. The geometry of the blocks/cleat looks like it would definitely make this system difficult to use. Every time you pull on the mainsheet, the whole system will try to twist.


Quote:
I'm like you and would rather fix it than spend money.

Normally, I would tend to agree because I'm the same way. But in this case, you're talking about fixing a product that is vastly inferior to the Harken / Ronstan systems. There's a reason Seaway blocks went the way of the dinosaur...they just plain suck in comparison to Harken.


Quote:
With the ratchet to the side seems that the sheet configuration is very easy, given that you start at one side and pass it through the next, block, next block, next block and racthet (it gets to be more complex when the ratchet is on center).

No, not really, as long as you know the proper way to thread the mainsheet with a standard center ratchet, the system will work flawlessly. The problem with this off-center ratchet/cleat is that the mainsheet load will not be centered along the blocks when you pull in the sheet and since the cleat & ratchet are not centered along the blocks, whenever you pull in the mainsheet, the whole system is going to try to twist.

There aren't many parts on an older Hobie that I would say need to be upgraded, but these Seaway blocks were really bad. I would put them at the top of the list for things to upgrade, even if that means just geting a new bottom block and leaving the old upper. You will be amazed at how much better the new blocks are - the cleat operation, the ratchet, the reduced friction, the adjustability, everything simply works better. Really a worthwhile investment if you want to get the most enjoyment out of your boat.

sm


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:20 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:58 am
Posts: 81
PurdueZach wrote:
BrianCT wrote:
FYI, Harkenstore.com has has a nice 57MM triple Cam-Matic setup on sale for $109 (Model HSB447 which is regularly priced at $217). Search Menu/Store/Closeouts/Blocks. Good luck.

Hope this isn't threadjacking but I think it is relevant to pyroboy08's original question:
Would this block work on a Hobie 16? It has a becket on the top and the block typically used (HAR2629) does not. Correct me if I'm wrong but would you be able to do a 7:1 purchase using the becket? What if you just wanted 6:1? Also, if I understand correctly, these are not ratchet blocks as are normally used these days.


HSB447 looks like does not have a ratchet. I think it is essential to have a ratchet, so I wouldn't buy that one.
With becket and a triple on top you can do 6:1. With no becket and double with becket on top, 5:1.


srm wrote:
Quote:
could it be that with the ratchet on the end of the stack you could be twisting and binding?

I think it's highly likely that this is part of the problem. The geometry of the blocks/cleat looks like it would definitely make this system difficult to use. Every time you pull on the mainsheet, the whole system will try to twist.
Quote:
I'm like you and would rather fix it than spend money.

Normally, I would tend to agree because I'm the same way. But in this case, you're talking about fixing a product that is vastly inferior to the Harken / Ronstan systems. There's a reason Seaway blocks went the way of the dinosaur...they just plain suck in comparison to Harken.
Quote:
With the ratchet to the side seems that the sheet configuration is very easy, given that you start at one side and pass it through the next, block, next block, next block and racthet (it gets to be more complex when the ratchet is on center).

No, not really, as long as you know the proper way to thread the mainsheet with a standard center ratchet, the system will work flawlessly. The problem with this off-center ratchet/cleat is that the mainsheet load will not be centered along the blocks when you pull in the sheet and since the cleat & ratchet are not centered along the blocks, whenever you pull in the mainsheet, the whole system is going to try to twist.
There aren't many parts on an older Hobie that I would say need to be upgraded, but these Seaway blocks were really bad. I would put them at the top of the list for things to upgrade, even if that means just geting a new bottom block and leaving the old upper. You will be amazed at how much better the new blocks are - the cleat operation, the ratchet, the reduced friction, the adjustability, everything simply works better. Really a worthwhile investment if you want to get the most enjoyment out of your boat.
sm


I agree with all what you are saying. Good blocks are great! They make everything more pleasant. The only thing I was saying is that with the center ratchet you got to put a little more thought into the rigging. It works great if it is properly rigged.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:30 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2406
Location: Jersey Shore
gmozavala wrote:
The only thing I was saying is that with the center ratchet you got to put a little more thought into the rigging.


Not really, the thinking part has already been done. You just need to be able to follow a diagram...

Image

sm


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:03 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:14 pm
Posts: 63
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Thanks for all the replies, all of the other pulleys in the system seem to turn freely. The mainsheet will release somewhat easily if I pull slack through the ratcheting block.

I really can't spend the money on a Harken block. Even if I could afford it, it seems ridiculous to charge that kind of money for such a simple part that can be repaired, or jury rigged for free. I really do hate having to cheap out on things like this.

gmozavala wrote:
can you send a picture of the blocks rigged with the mainsheet?

Not the best picture with the tangled mess of rope around it, but I hope it gives you an idea of how the blocks are setup.
Image

_________________
'73 Hobie 16
1970's styrofoam snark

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:31 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:32 am
Posts: 283
"...they just plain suck in comparison to Harken"

What he said.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group