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 Post subject: Re: Olympics
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:40 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Charlotte Harbor, FL
The Star was designed in 1910, the 470, in 1963, and the Soling, in 1965. These all are Olympic-class boats, so I don't ever buy into arguments that have technology trumping the skill of the competitor.

One of the things that I like about the 16 as an Olympic-class boat is that it is a strict one design. Moreover, it takes more skill to tack it quickly and efficiently, demanding, imo, more skill to make it competitive. Olympic-level competition should be hard. There is also the excitement factor, for the spectator, and Hobie 16s are very exciting to watch.

Whether or not the 16 ever achieves Olympic status is irrelevant to me, because it has already earned its place at the world's most popular catamaran. One thing that Hobie could do, that, imo, would make the boats more popular, would be to give them a more modern look, which would be as simple as designing more graphic sail and hull color schemes.

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People tell me that I take my sports too seriously. My answer is always the same: Half-assed effort yields little satisfaction for me. On the other hand, performing well is like good sex. I'm in no hurry for it to end. - KC


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 Post subject: Re: Olympics
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 7:21 pm
Posts: 887
Location: Thunder Bay,On
Good reply Ken, but the classes you mentioned are not SMOD classes.Lots of variations in all the Olympic classes (except the Laser) in terms of hull,s ,masts ,sails....
IMO the Laser Class is the only true Sailor vrs. Sailor class in the Olympics.


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 Post subject: Re: Olympics
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 pm
Posts: 1662
Location: Northfield Minnesota
With the exception of the Tornado, all of the boats submitted for the trials are SMOD.
I think the H16, Viper, and Tornado are the only ISAF recognized classes though.


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 Post subject: Re: Olympics
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 280
Location: Pittsboro NC
The Finn was dsigned in 1949 as a One design single hander - still an olympic class

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 Post subject: Re: Olympics
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 pm
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Location: Northfield Minnesota
OD vs. SMOD


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 Post subject: Re: Olympics
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 7:21 pm
Posts: 887
Location: Thunder Bay,On
Enrique Figuroea is on the evaluation panel ,interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Olympics
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:53 am
Posts: 237
Location: Storm Lake, IA
has anyone heard how the 16s did today? I heard some pretty strong winds came threw and caused some equipment damage? Just curious how the Hobies did...


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 Post subject: Re: Olympics
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 pm
Posts: 1662
Location: Northfield Minnesota
I know Sarah and Matt got on the H16 and immediately stuffed it. That's the only thing I've heard about the Hobies.


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 Post subject: Re: Olympics
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:47 pm
Posts: 579
Location: San Diego
"That's baloney. Basically every single sport is using the peak of technology in equipment." This doesn't ring true...

Shot putt? Some sport is low tech by design, like boats propelled by wind (by design, low tech propulsion). Isn't our sport supposed to measure the sailor's ability to navigate wind and water? The Laser is the other perfect example current to the olympics and our sport.

The inclusive nature (low cost) of the Hobie 16 would also allow less sophisticated/financially developed nations to compete/qualify. Unfortunately, as it has been explained to me, there is a limit of 19 or so teams so no matter which boat is picked, we will never see a 100+ boat race open to every country competing. This limit on the number of competitors is forced by IOC to limit host country cost and maximize profits. Too bad, wouldn't a 100+ boat race be exciting?

Along the low cost line, maybe the Hobie 16 has a chance. The spinnaker requirement and the reluctance to adopt that in the US may kill the boat's chance.

People in the know say that a time locked Tiger (no or little changes allowed) may have a really good shot. We can hope...


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 Post subject: Re: Olympics
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:42 pm 
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Location: Northfield Minnesota
How much technology is in the shoes those shot put throwers are using? Apples and ice cubes dude.

The H16 doesn't have cost going for it, its easily the most expensive boat to campaign there.


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 Post subject: Re: Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 7:21 pm
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Location: Thunder Bay,On
Karl pretty soon we are going to call you Wouter,remember this is a Hobie Forum the other Forums are for Hobie Bashing .This Forum was designed to promote them.


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 Post subject: Re: Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:27 am 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
Posts: 2553
Location: Jersey Shore
Karl Brogger wrote:
The H16 doesn't have cost going for it, its easily the most expensive boat to campaign there.


Huh? Can you elaborate?

In any case, the cost of the boat (whichever boat) is only a fraction of the the overall cost of the campaign. Travel, lodging, training, competing, eating, taking months/years off work, that's where the real cost is.

sm


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 Post subject: Re: Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4586
Location: Detroit, MI
srm wrote:
Karl Brogger wrote:
The H16 doesn't have cost going for it, its easily the most expensive boat to campaign there.


Huh? Can you elaborate?

In any case, the cost of the boat (whichever boat) is only a fraction of the the overall cost of the campaign. Travel, lodging, training, competing, eating, taking months/years off work, that's where the real cost is.

sm
The Kool-Aid that Karl's drinking makes him think that in order to mount a successful Olympic campaign, you'd buy several Hobie 16s just to get the "ideal" parts to make a "fast one". (This is currently the practice in Lasers, where they go through masts - especially the top section - and other equipment almost as if they were disposable.) The other assumption is that you'd need a new boat every major regatta to remain competitive (as the boats become looser the more you sail them).

There was a guy from Canada that tried this 12+ years ago in an attempt to have an "ideal" boat for the Pan Am Games. He went through a half-dozen masts before he found one he liked, which he promptly broke when he stuck it in the mud at Rehoboth. He ended up getting his rear end handed to him by Enrique anyway at the PAG that year.


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 Post subject: Re: Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:30 am 
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Location: Northfield Minnesota
mmadge wrote:
Karl pretty soon we are going to call you Wouter,remember this is a Hobie Forum the other Forums are for Hobie Bashing .This Forum was designed to promote them.


I'm not bashing, and no Kool-Aid. I don't think any of the boats being submitted is on par with the quality of a Marstrom Tornado, and the discussion is costs.


An Olympic campaign means sailing a lot. 200+ days a year. That's 800+ days every cycle.

Figure the average serious amateur spends 40 days a year sailing, with the H16 they typically get a new boat every two years. If you stick with numbers like that, (in reality I'd bet they'd use up more just from being picky), your looking at going through twenty boats in that cycle. If you're spending $10k a boat, that's $200,000!
The Marstrom Tornados are pre-preg, and autoclaved. They are extremely stiff, and stiff means fast. Those boats will, and do last and entire quadrenium (sp) of training, and you've got $40k into a Tornado. Sure, you're going to go through sails like crazy no matter what boat, but you're not going to can the platform as often.

Trust me, these guys spend a ton of time on the water, and get to know the equipment extremely well, and as a result get very picky about how things feel. If things don't feel right, it throws everything off.


There's definitely parts that work better than others. I've got a mast right now that I'm probably going to hang onto for a few boats, because I like it. It just feels good, and I'm no where near the skill level of the Olympic hopefulls. Even if its just in my head, that's still worth something.


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 Post subject: Re: Olympics
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:22 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 7:21 pm
Posts: 887
Location: Thunder Bay,On
Couple thoughts on the previous posts.Any boat and Class you are going to have a huge investment in Gear.Probably will need at least two boats (one in N.A. and one in Europe).The good news with the 16 is you are going to turn that boat over at a good resale value lot quicker then a Tornado.
Now onto this Canadian Fellow,pretty sure he is not the only guy doing that as I remember talking to some top Americans that specifically went thru some Hobie 16 masts to find the lightest ones only to have them Break at the N.A. in Newport RI.
As far as the Pan Ams go that is another issue altogether.The selection for the Hobie 16 team for Canada is a Joke.The last selection process was not even advertised in a NOR.Had a discussion about choosing the team from the top finishers when the N.A. was held in Kingston Can. where we had 10 Canadian 16 teams,but that just made too much sence.Not that anyone of us including the Top American Teams would not still get there rear ends handed to them by Enrique (no shame in that).


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