Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:15 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:58 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:17 am
Posts: 5
Location: Roanoke, VA
I love this post and have bookmarked it. The photos are extremely helpful in illustrating the setup (although I am not sure that I totally understand it yet).

I have been thinking about getting a spinnaker for my boat but the lack of good documentation and support, along with reports of malfunctions have all made me hesitant.

With another year under your belt, I am curious what you think about your H16 spinnaker? Have you been able to work out the kinks so that the spinnaker is a reliable sail? Has the bridle hardware ripped your spinnaker to shreds yet?

And finally, you mentioned that you were considering an F18 boat. If you did acquire an F18, how would you compare the H16 spinnaker configuration with that boat, which is designed for a spinnaker?

Any honest feedback that you can provide would be much appreciated!!! Thanks a lot!

_________________
Leigh Huff


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:15 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 685
Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
Email with two PDF's sent...
please see if you can post those PDF's on this forum.

love my spin.

later

_________________
1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:50 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:27 pm
Posts: 19
McLube the spin in a strip 1 foot on either side of the line going thru the little grommets also.
WEAR GLOVES when deploying/retrieving. If it doesn't retrieve cleanly, just hank it and try again.
I find the stock sheet continuous line too long. Several times when I drop the spin, one of the
sheet lines falls under a hull. PITA to clear up because have to crawl out to the front of one of the Hulls.
I am going to experiment this weekend with shortening the sheet line until this no longer occurs.
Will report later

_________________
Pat Morra M.D.
1981 H16 56662 Cat Fever "Double Dose"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:22 am 
Offline
Hobie Tech / Moderator

Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 1:12 pm
Posts: 1008
If you're running over the sheets that's more an issue with going too slow and or too deep of an angle (too much dead down wind) You need to be on a sailing heading so when you let go of the halyard the spin flows out and back away from the boat, and not falling limp down in front of the boat. So try not letting the halyard go when going too deep of a sailing angle - that'll solve the problem - not the length of the sheet causing that - sorry to say.

_________________
Jacques Bernier
http://www.hobiecat.com/
http://www.facebook.com/HobieCatCompany


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:43 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Admiral

Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:24 pm
Posts: 270
Location: Grand Rapids, MICHIGAN
[quote]With another year under your belt, I am curious what you think about your H16 spinnaker? Have you been able to work out the kinks so that the spinnaker is a reliable sail? Has the bridle hardware ripped your spinnaker to shreds yet?
And finally, you mentioned that you were considering an F18 boat. If you did acquire an F18, how would you compare the H16 spinnaker configuration with that boat, which is designed for a spinnaker?
Any honest feedback that you can provide would be much appreciated!!! Thanks a lot!
/quote]

Hi Leigh. The 16 spin is fun. (necessary - no) I needed "MORE THAN A 16" so I thought the spin would be it... wasn't really it. It worked well, but is ALOT OF EXTRA SETUP. I would not recommend a spin unless

1. you race with other 16s with spins.
2. you can leave your boat on shore - mast up and spin pole in place. (cover the spin in the bag).
3. you setup to sail for long periods. to make all the setup worth while.

Needing more than a 16 I went and added the spin. Still wasn't enough. I picked up a 18SX and was having a lot more fun with it. Faster, more STABLE more sail area and the thing screams. I then found a used spin for it. But did I want to add all that extra setup? I figured I'd add the spin to the 18 and sell the 16. Then one of our group put his Tiger up for sale. He got it from our buddy Matt Bounds on here, and now I have it. I've just installed a "new" spinnaker on it and I have a new tramp coming for it as well. Sailing the F18 boat is even cooler than the 18SX. (but I love the wings and so does the wife... so I keep the 18sx for short after noon or day sails. I also race it on tuesday eves with Fleet 519.

Spins are a lot of setup and hassle - because of that I did sell the 16 and spin (to someone in British Columbia... I'm in Michigan!
and since getting the tiger and spin - I have decided to sell my used spin I bought for the 18SX. I don't want to add a spin to that boat because both boats will be lots of work to setup and pickup. so I use the 18 without spin for sailing where I setup and take down the same day. (racing tues nights etc).

The F18 I use for CRAM events.. racing on weekends when I can set it up friday night. (it's less work if everyone is setting up together - its more fun) I can then sail Sat and sun - and we all pack up together. That's the only way the spin is worth the effort.
Right now the Tiger is setup on my daughters beach (inland lake - quite small) but I can leave it setup and sail it every other day with no more effort than raising the sails. But in a couple weeks I pack it up again to trailer to the next CRAM race. (For me I think that will be Higgens Lake).

Spins are beautiful. (more so to watch than to sail) because from drivers seat - you don't see it much. Crew gets to enjoy it a bit more... It was easy to solo on the 16 with main and spin. But for me - I tend to get into hobbies deeper and deeper unitl the WORK IS MORE HASSLE THAN THE FUN. I feared this with the spin for the 18 and getting the Tiger. I've not sold the tiger yet... it's just SO SEXY to sail it - it's just rock steady and cuts flat and solid through the chop. It's worth the hassle if I can get more than one day of sailing out of the setup and tear down time. Spins are also expensive. The set for the 16 was around 1600.
One mishap and I had a 250 buck repair after first time out.

The spin on the Tiger I also damaged (my fault) trying to pack up by tearing down as little as possible and trying to leave spin pole on the boat. About 100.00 repair. Then I wanted a SNU bag system and that was a bit over 500. I wanted a new black spin and that was (a special deal at around 1100.) So it's not a cheap bit of business.

I don't think I could recommend the spin for the 16. It's STILL A 16... and while the 16 is a fun boat... it's still a 16. I've owned about 8 of them in the past 6 years. I'll probably not own another. I guess I outgrew them, I started trailering and going to the great lakes and larger bodies of water. the 16 is a great inland lake boat. They're cool - if you don't mind lots of extra work to sail, or trailer and you got money to burn... give it a shot.

If you want more excitement from your sailing - the spin won't really do it on the 16. I think like me - you may need a 18 to get that next level of excitement. While I love my 18SX (2000) she's really not much more work than a 16 to prep. (add dagger boards and wings). What I like is she's stable in big water. On the other hand if you can find a F18 boat - you get a spin in the deal - and you get the most exhilarating ride. The stability... I feel like I'm riding on the back of a GREAT WHITE. The spin if mishandled will throw you up and spit you out. (as I had happen last week as I was trying to see if I could solo sail the Tiger and spin setup I just upgraded. Over all I did - but I learned I shouldn't... it was way to much work and after 60 minutes i was totally drained. (well the 22 mile ride ride before I sailed may have been part of that.). If you wanna see that video look me up on Facebook Ron Kramer
I was doing my first solo f18 spin stuff - just added new sail and snu. Was trapping out down wind on the aft footstrap. A puff came and pulled me up - I released the sheet as to not go over and I slammed down - and lost my footing. A did a (quite fun) peter pan along the side of the boat and almost pulled it over - pushed the stick to get myself back on board and to get the opposite hull down and slithered aboard. (saying a little prayer of thanks).

here's a direct link - really quite a MILD day - and still - check out how the TIGER IS LIKE A FREIGHT TRAIN. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10 ... =2&theater

Was I of any help?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:20 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 685
Location: Nepean S.C. Ottawa, Canada
You can sail solo with a spin:
A: if you have a self tacking jib (or if you at really good at setting/adjusting the sheets on your own)
B: if you REALLY know what you are doing.

The thing you will learn is that the spin sheet has to be 'played' all the time, in and out to get the best 'lift'. This is why I suggested you meet with others, especially high performance dinghy sailors, like 505's, 470's, Fireballs, I-14's, or even Vipers, plus cats - F18's, Tornado's, Tigers, Wildcats etc. There are many YouTube video's of H16 sailing under spin....

You may also want to go to the library or spend some money on Amazon and buy and amazing book called High Performance Sailing II by Dr. Frank Bethwaite, Ph. D. This may help you get a better handle on 'apparent wind', so you can understand the forces (physics) that occur in skiff and cat sailing.

If I sound like a 'heavy' on this, relax.... it's just to save you things like broken masts or comp tips, or other 'adventures' like Ron Kramer suffered. (Great post Ron, and yes, the Tiger/WildCat are awesome). The thing is that spin sailing is a whole new ball game, and I keep that thought in mind every time we raise the spin.... mainsheet locked in tight (to act as a backstay to prevent the comptip/mast from snapping), traveler out some, then locked, head at about 135 degrees off the wind, and sheet in the spin.

When the spin fills, play it... go as deep as you can while maintaining speed. As soon as the speed drops off, head up a fraction... go 'hotter'. As it heats up, head down... all of these turns are gentle carving turns. The front edge of the spin will curl as you lose wind. Try and keep it taut.

If you get hit with a vicious puff, bear away until you are heading down wind. The H18 can take HUGE amounts of pressure downwind. I doubt that the H16 can... so be prepared to swim. We have caused the bows of our H18 to dive right up until the front cross bar was awash...., released the spin sheet, no problemo. (Make sure you have a foot tucked into a foot strap to prevent a gravity trip to the bow.)

My guess is that you will need the weight of crew to keep your H16 upright under spin.
Everyone I know who has 'converted' to a spin walks around with a big smile.....

Pitch in guys, I am not a guru on this subject,

_________________
1989 Hobie SX18 Sail # 1947
'Only two things are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity. But I'm not sure about the former.'


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:28 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:17 am
Posts: 5
Location: Roanoke, VA
Rojoyinc and John,

You guys are fantastic. Your thoughtful and detailed advice has been extremely helpful. Rojoyinc addressed the issue of how much extra rigging is involved and John addressed the issue of whether it is safe and practical to sail solo with a spinnaker. Both responses make perfect sense to me, and since I typically rig and sail my boat by myself, these are major considerations.

As a quick anecdote, I never really focused on how to handle the jib while flying a spinnaker solo. In my dreams, I can visualize handling it on a broad reach, but don't think I have enough hands to get both the jib and the spinnaker over on a gybe without the assistance of a self-tacking jib. John's comments on that were particularly helpful.

Thanks again to guys!

_________________
Leigh Huff


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:01 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:49 pm
Posts: 3
Hi Roj, looks good / the help below is really great. I just did the same, actually I wass unsure if the Toilet Seat should be riveted to the pole or not. I see you did that - think I'll do the same , I was just wondering if you wanted to change the angle of the seat or are you happy with it at 90 degrees ?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group