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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 7:32 am 
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Hello Hobie folks,

Thank you! I plan to get a Hobie 16 for recreational NC Outer Banks racing, and I read that you don’t need to epoxy or shim boats built since maybe 2001 because they have a new corner casting and pylon design that achieves a much tighter fit. My main question is, is this true, and importantly, what year was the change actually made?

Does the flex and slop develop just where the frame inserts onto the pylons? Or do you epoxy or shim the frame itself too? I could maybe get away with leaving the frame intact if it's that important, but I need to be able to take the hulls off the frame to put into a 5th wheel trailer. If you put shim b/w the frame and pylons real tight I wonder how difficult to separate them later?

EDIT: cleaned up and removed extraneous question re width

Much Appreciated!
Stu


Last edited by jscan on Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:08 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:14 am 
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Hello,

From the lack of response, I'm beginning to wonder if there was any meaningful design change at all, and the only reason the newer boats are tighter is simply that they are newer. If the newer boats are eventually going to develop the same problem anyway, I'll probably just get an older boat and shim it. If anyone knows about the supposed "design change" I'd appreciate it.

Thank you!
Stu

PS This is what I was referring to. It was written in late 2003: "There are several ways to achieve a stiff boat. One is to buy a new one. Hobie 16's built in the last couple of years have a new corner casting and pylon design that achieves a much tighter fit. These new models are very stiff without having to epoxy the frame together."
http://www.thebeachcats.com/news/82/how ... formance./


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:28 am 
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The newer boats have a tapered casting. As the casting is placed on the pylon, it gets tighter the further it goes in. You can tell the tappered casting because they have the integrated jib traveler turning block. Some people still glue the newer boats but I have found it completly unnecessary.
As a boat gets older I have had to rerivet the corner castings to maintain stiffness.
Years ago we would epoxy the corner castings to the cross bars as well as castings to pylons. Glued boats are very difficult to take apart, if you should ever need to replace a hull or a cross bar.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:43 am 
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p porter wrote:
The newer boats have a tapered casting. As the casting is placed on the pylon, it gets tighter the further it goes in. You can tell the tappered casting because they have the integrated jib traveler turning block. Some people still glue the newer boats but I have found it completly unnecessary.
As a boat gets older I have had to rerivet the corner castings to maintain stiffness.
Years ago we would epoxy the corner castings to the cross bars as well as castings to pylons. Glued boats are very difficult to take apart, if you should ever need to replace a hull or a cross bar.

Hi Porter,

Thank you a lot. Tapered castings sounds like a nice improvement, I think that's what I'll look for.

Besides windsurfing and kiteboarding, my sailing has been very limited, so I've got a lot to learn. I tried for a good while this morning to figure out what an "integrated jib traveler turning block" is on the web and the H16 assembly manual and parts guide on this site. I know what the main sail traveler does on the rear crossbar generally. For the jib sail I found the cheek, downhaul, jib clew, and jib sheet blocks, but not the turning block, maybe cause it came later. I am going to learn the terminology, but I probably won't really get it until I put a hobie cat together and see how things work. I'll try to find out what the integrated turning block is and when it was introduced. Looking for a boat, it may be useful for me to try to find out if I can what year these changes took place, since my understanding is so limited now.

I really appreciate the help.

Stu


Last edited by jscan on Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:40 am 
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Image

Instead of having that cheek block riveted onto the casting its built in...could not find a pic of the new style...its pretty slick though!

edit: knew I had seen a pic on here...
Image

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:25 am 
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Wow thank you hobiesrock. A pic is worth a thousand words. That really helps me understand the integrated jib traveler turning block better. Gracias.

My grasp of the corner casting/pylon "design change" is still shaky however. Like Porter said, tapering makes for a tighter fit. Makes total sense to me. But did they discontinue tapering in 2003? I noticed what's below for the first time this morning. I'm not sure if it refers to the same issue,

From this site's Hobie Parts Guide under H14/H16 FROnt CROssBAR
*Starting in ‘95 boats had newer style castings / pylons

and under H14/H16 REAR CROssBAR
* Not all ‘94 boats had newer style castings / pylons
http://static.hobiecat.com/digital_asse ... _14-16.pdf

But a possibly more recent Hobie Parts Guide,

under H16 FRONT CROSSBAR as well as under H16 REAR CROSSBAR
* Not all ‘94 boats had newer style castings / pylons. In 2003 production returned to the original castings.
http://www.cat44.com/pdfs/hobie-16-parts.pdf

Thanks for any more help to understand this.
Stu


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:40 am 
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I don't understand why it says that the casting returned to the the old style in 2003. Maybe Matt Miller can explain.
I purchased a right front corner casting two months ago and it is identical to the castings on current production. It is also identical to the casting that came off my 2007.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:26 am 
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That parts guide on the Cat44 website is ancient. Our website never gets updated. The new 2013 parts guide says boats from 95 and newer have new style castings. Possibly the integrated tracks were fitted to late model 2004's, so some boats from that year had it and some not... From 2005 on all boats had the newer castings and integrated traveler tracks.

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:54 pm 
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Thank you for the catalog clerification. The integrated tracks were 1994. The new corner castings were 2005 and late 2004 I believe.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:11 pm 
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p porter wrote:
Thank you for the catalog clerification. The integrated tracks were 1994. The new corner castings were 2005 and late 2004 I believe.
The corner castings with the integrated turning blocks were introduced at the same time as the integrated tracks - 1995.

I know for sure they were on the boats by 1998, since I owned a new boat with them then. That boat was impossible to get apart because the castings were so tight.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:40 pm 
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I trust that the catalog is correct... new castings / pylons started in '95 model year production. Our inventory system only sees back to 1999 and we were using them then.

The "new" stuff came from Hobie Cat Europe. Castings were supposed to be a tighter tolerance and die cast. They actually were not...,but the stainless forms are more consistent that sand cast aluminum. The pylons were designed specifically for pylon use instead of using a H14 mast section. They are thicker and do not have the luff track.

It is possible we had to use some US made castings again along the way, but that would have been short lived due to a supply issue.

Our metal shop guys had a habit of grinding off too much material from inside the castings at times to make the parts fit easier. We had put a stop to that some time ago.

Yes, new boats and the newer castings are a tighter fit and make the boats stiffer over all.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:12 am 
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Lots of info. Thanks very much to Matt and everyone. Great forum and resource.

So, to be clear, is the US production "design change" I've referred to basically tapered castings and thicker pylons? And that took place in '95?

If this is the design change, the pylons without a luff track should be easy to identify, even without a date. If there's the possibility, like Matt said, that some boats after '95 used the old US castings, I suppose I need to learn to identify that difference too. Pics?

I can't wait to learn to sail Hobie Cats for my own fun and so I can teach my niece and nephews!

Stu


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:39 am 
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Old front casting:
Image

New castings will have the integrated turning block - very easy to distinguish.

New rear casting:
Image

The distinguishing features are the "flying H" + "Hobie Cat" cast into it (not just the words like above) and a very heavy flange where the rear crossbeam is inserted. Notice how much heavier the flange is than the first photo.

Of course, the different pylons are very easy to distinguish. Open rear end = old, closed rear end = new.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:37 am 
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There is no specific "taper" difference that I am aware of. They always had a bit of taper due to the way molding works.

Yes, you can easily tell the newer pylon by looking at the aft edge. No track.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:31 am 
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Mbounds, that sure was a speedy and perfect fulfillment of my request. Sorry I didn’t have a chance to reply yesterday. Thank you! Now I can tell the “design change” just by looking at the pylons and corner castings, so I don’t need to know the year of the boat. Fantastic!

Matt, thanks for responding again. So maybe if the newer corner castings are not more “tapered,” they are thicker, like the newer pylons, and this is what makes the system stiffer I guess.

So guys, can I draw the conclusion that for the pre '95 boats, people like me who wanna go hobie fast, jump ocean swells/waves, and race recreationally would almost certainly want to epoxy or shim where the castings insert onto the pylons, BUT if someone like me gets a ‘95 and forward good condition boat with these design changes, that unless he's a highly competitive racer, he shouldn't need to epoxy or shim this casting/pylon union?

Most grateful,
Stu


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