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Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
http://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48172		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  PurdueZach [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:42 am ]
Post subject:  Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
Hey guys, I've been saving my money for a while now to buy a newer Hobie 16 and have finally come very close!

I'm looking at a 2002 Hobie 16 that appears to be in great condition. The owner is a really nice guy and he is very helpful with lots of pictures and answers all of my questions.

He said that he is the second owner and the first owner was an older guy who only sailed it a few times because it was too intimidating. When the current owner bought it, he sailed it for a summer on a lake in Michigan and then it has sat in a garage since.

He's asking $5500 for it. Is that too much for a 2002? Even in as good of condition as he says it is? I've seen 2004's go for $5000 before but I'm not sure their condition. Your opinions would be greatly appreciated.

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.....Many more pictures here
Author:  sxrracer [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
Drooling.
Author:  richandpat [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
PurdueZach - It's really hard to put a dollar amount on a used boat, but here are a few things to consider:
The boat looks like it's in great, great shape. It has a nice trailer with a Cat Box and who knows what else he's throwing in. It hasn't been used much and has been kept in a garage when not in use. Sailed in fresh water; not in an ocean. Probably not much oxidation or corrosion. He's asking $5500 in June - th beginning of sailing season in Michigan. Usually a boat is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If you pass on this boat and trailer and someone else buys it, how will you feel? If it wouldn't bother you, then it's not worth $5500 to you. It appears as though it needs no work and is ready to sail. I'm not trying to talk you into this, but there are some things to consider when trying to put a dollar amount on a boat. How enotionally attached are you to this boat? How bad do you want it? What's your cut-off point?
Author:  PurdueZach [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
richandpat wrote:
PurdueZach - It's really hard to put a dollar amount on a used boat, but here are a few things to consider:
The boat looks like it's in great, great shape. It has a nice trailer with a Cat Box and who knows what else he's throwing in. It hasn't been used much and has been kept in a garage when not in use. Sailed in fresh water; not in an ocean. Probably not much oxidation or corrosion. He's asking $5500 in June - the beginning of sailing season in Michigan. Usually a boat is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If you pass on this boat and trailer and someone else buys it, how will you feel? If it wouldn't bother you, then it's not worth $5500 to you. It appears as though it needs no work and is ready to sail. I'm not trying to talk you into this, but there are some things to consider when trying to put a dollar amount on a boat. How enotionally attached are you to this boat? How bad do you want it? What's your cut-off point?

Thanks for your thoughts. The boat is actually down South near where I am this summer in Florida. I'm hoping to get some thoughts from people on its actual current market value. I know that I want it but I also don't want to pay extra if it is worth less. I've taken enough economics classes (2 :D ) to know that I should try to remove my emotions from the equation.
Author:  srm [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
The picture shows a roller furling jib. Does it come with a standard jib too? That would be something to consider, especially if you ever plan on class racing.

sm
Author:  PurdueZach [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
srm wrote:
The picture shows a roller furling jib. Does it come with a standard jib too? That would be something to consider, especially if you ever plan on class racing.

sm

I noticed that. What's a new jib cost? I guess I would need more than the jib though- hardware as well.

The other thing that its missing is EPO rudders.
Author:  srm [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
PurdueZach wrote:
I noticed that. What's a new jib cost? I guess I would need more than the jib though- hardware as well.

The other thing that its missing is EPO rudders.


Definitely things to consider. New EPO 3 rudders are approaching $1k for a pair and I would guess that a new jib, battens, forestay, and halyard would be close to another $1k (of course you Hobie dealer can give you firm numbers). So if those items are needed, you are beginning to approach the cost of a new boat for one that is over 10 years old.

You also mentioned that the boat is in Florida. The front crossbar is clearly faded which would lead me to believe that the boat has spent some time outside in the sun uncovered. I would question how much life the tramp has left.

All in all, I would assume it's a good boat as long as no major structural defects, but you definitely want to consider all the added costs to get the boat up to speed.

If it's got the original jib, then I'd say that's a bonus as you can sell the furling jib and recoup some of the cost. If it doesn't have the original jib, I'd say that's a major negative. Even the cost of shrouds- if the boat has original rigging, then it's due for a change and you're looking at close to $500.

sm
Author:  waldorf [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
I paid $4000 for a 98 that is in pretty good shape... so that price for a little used 2002 seems about right... BUT... i am curious if those are the original rudders??? If the boat was sailed so infrequently why did someone buy the furling jib setup??? If everything is tight and the "story" seems right i would offer... $5000.
Newer used boats like this are hard to come by....
Author:  PurdueZach [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
I'm not so concerned about the rudders because I have a pair of EPOs that just need to be refinished. And the roller furling is actually a plus for me because of its convenience. Honestly, no one is going to protest a boat with a furling jib unless they are winning...and that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

I am concerned about SRM's comment about the front crossbar looking faded. I'll ask the guy about it. He has always stored it inside but who knows if it was stored outside before he bought it. I may have to factor in the chance that I'll have to buy a new tramp.

Thanks guys!
Author:  PurdueZach [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
Oh and the boat isn't actually in Florida. He is in SC and but he hasn't used it since he moved from Michigan. It has been in his garage since he moved to SC.

I won't divulge his location any further to keep this boat my little secret. It isn't advertised for sale anywhere. :D
Author:  ASDASC [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
I am just curious, what would it cost to buy a new boat, optioned like that with the trailer, etc.? That might put it in perspective more.
Author:  rattle 'n hum [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
I would echo waldorf's comments. Pictures can deceive and closer inspection is warranted of course, but the boat, trailer, and gear look to be in great shape to me. A little fading on the frame isn't really a big deal, and I'll bet the tramp is fine, too. And maybe I'm misinterpreting SRM, but new standing rigging is considerably less than $500.

According to M Bounds rudder history, the EPO2 wasn't even introduced until 2004. These look like the "racing rudders" that were stock on new boats before EPO2s (important to know for sure). If so, they are fine rudders....light, strong, and perform as well as the Gen One EPOs in my opinion. The construction is even similar with the main difference (negative) being that the outside is gelcoat which is more prone to chip, especially on the trailing edge.

Personally, I'd rather have the stock jib, too. But if you aren't worried about racing issues and want to keep the furler set up, the snorkle is a plus. So is that tramp bag and the cradle.....not cheap!

Around here, that boat would probably be more like $4500, so $5000 would probably be about right. You've been looking for a while, and newer used 16s are indeed hard to come by. If it looks right and it's what you want, I doubt you'll regret a few hundred bucks either way.

That said, buying a boat long distance sucks. I wouldn't put a penny down on a boat that I hadn't inspected.
Author:  richandpat [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
PurdueZach - It's hard to place a value on this boat since I'm not aware of any Kelly"s Blue Book for used Hobie Cats. There are so many variables for you to consider: the condition of the boat and trailer; extras he's throwing in; availability of other similar boats for sale in your area; replacement costs, if any, for rigging, tramp, jib, etc......
It sounds like you've been looking around, so you already know about availability. Obviously, if the asking price were much higher, you wouldn'r waste your time and money to travel to SC to check it out; but for $5500 it might be worthwhile to check it out and then try to come to a agreement with the seller on a price that's fair for both of you. How did he arrive at the price of $5500??? You might want to check with a Hobie Dealer in Fla. or SC. They would be more familiar with prices in that area than most of us.
Some people are lucky and get great, great deals while most of us wind up paying a fair price.
Please keep us informed. This is really interesting.
Author:  ftlauderdale16 [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
Zach... The first thing I wondered about when I saw the photos was why the front cross bar is so faded if its been kept in a garage? That's a lot of fading. It's easy to stick a boat in the garage while taking photos of it to claim its garage kept.

The fading isn't a problem, but like SRM mentioned, the tramp would be the next concern. If the boat isn't indeed garage kept, I think $5500 is kind of on the high side in my humble opinion. I guess if you can actually go see the boat for yourself you'll be able to decide.


Have a Hobie Day!

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Author:  PurdueZach [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fair price for 2002 Hobie 16?
richandpat wrote:
How did he arrive at the price of $5500???

He said he bought it for $6500 1.5 years ago.
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