Hobie Cat Forums

It is currently Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:58 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:19 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:54 am
Posts: 20
Hi,

I've seen that this has been discussed multiple times before but the discussions seem to trail off about a year ago, so I figured I'd start fresh for 2013. I'm evaluating options for replacing mainsheet blocks and I've developed some confusion. There doesn't seem to be much debate that the upper/boom block should be the 40mm Harken H2640. For the lower/cam block, there seems to be a bit of disagreement. My understanding is:

  • * The original shipping part was the H194 which is discontinued, but was a 57mm sheave diameter - old stock may or may not be around to be had.
  • * Harken recommends the H2629 which is a 57 mm Triple Ratchamatic® Block — Swivel, Cam Cleat
  • * And then various threads here seem to agree on the H2612, which is a 40 mm Triple Ratchet Block — Swivel, Cam Cleat

The H2612 seems like an attractive choice, being 40mm instead of 57mm (lower profile), not to mention almost $90 cheaper. BUT! Harken's specs on the H2612 state a maximum line diameter of 0.25in/6mm, and the max working load (750lbs) is half that of the H2629 and H2640. That said, it appears that the working load of the H2612 is more than the H194 was (500lbs) in its time.

The undisputed upper/boom block (H2640) specifies a max line diameter of 10mm, and the physical dimensions of the 40mm upper and lower blocks appear the same, so I feel confident that a 0.375in/9mm mainsheet would physically fit through the sheaves, but I'm vaguely concerned about the delta in working load, and I'm left wondering if the lower line diameter specification is being driven by the lower working load, or if it's because of the cam cleat, or if the reeving is such that a larger rope would be likely to bind up, or what...

EDIT: Further googling indicates that one complaint about the H2612 is its always-on rachet, whereas the 57mm H2629 automatically switches based on load between ratchet and free-running operation. If that's the principal deciding factor, I think I'd go with the smaller always-ratcheting block. I've never bothered to turn the ratcheting action off on the switchable blocks I have now... not sure I see that behavior changing.

What is the current (2013) wisdom on this?

Thanks,
Ian


Last edited by ipmcc on Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:40 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:35 pm
Posts: 579
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
interested as well, want to update my lower block.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:24 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:54 am
Posts: 20
Being impatient, I went ahead and ordered myself the all-ratchet all-the-time 40mm bottom block (the H2612). I will report back after I try it (hopefully Saturday.)

Ian


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:07 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8617
Location: Oceanside, California
That block says 3/16" max diameter line? You need at least 3/8" for main sheet.

Ratchet "all the time"?

You will have issues when in gusty and lighter air. The ratchet is best used in windy conditions. Does not allow the sheet to run easily (holds some load).

In light or gusty conditions the delay in release can cause capsize.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:21 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8617
Location: Oceanside, California
We still stock the H194.

Best recommendation is that and the H2640 upper as shown in the catalog. 3/8" line.

This is how we rig new boats and especially World Championship boats. The H194 allows easier jaw angle adgustment. During events these get changed a LOT as sailors tune a different boat for each of their races. The newer Carbo blocks are a PITA to adjust jaw angle.

I use the on / off ratchet all the time.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:28 am 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:54 am
Posts: 20
Well, I guess we'll see how this one goes this weekend, and if it isn't gonna do the job, I'll return it and order one of these NOS H194s or try the Ratchamatic carbo version. As mentioned, in 5 years, I've never once turned off the ratchet in my current switchable-ratchet block, nor have I ever adjusted the jaw angle, but I'm not a racer, and I don't frequently let other people use the boat, so my use case may be different.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:35 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8617
Location: Oceanside, California
Jaw angle is personal preference. Too high and it's difficult to cleat. Too low and it's hard to un-cleat.

I like it just like the three bears... ahhh just right!

Ratchets can increase sensitivity in lighter air or hold sheet load when windy. That is just a matter of fatigue, strength and piece-of-mind that the sheet will release when needed. If sitting on the hull... ratchet-on can drag too much causing the boat to heel quickly in gusts. Once on the trapeze or aggressively hiking, the ratchet can help hold some load. Try it... you will like it.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:54 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 7:21 pm
Posts: 878
Location: Thunder Bay,On
3/8" line on the main is an overkill.Pretty sure all the new boats come with 5/16" sheets.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:23 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8617
Location: Oceanside, California
Correct! We even say 5/6" in the catalog, but I think the metric equivalent looks between 5/16 and 3/8. All depends on the weave and stiffness.

For other users... Using something like 5/16 absolutely requires 6:1 blocks.

Larger diameters are easier to hold. Smaller diameters run through blocks easier.

_________________
Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:37 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:54 am
Posts: 20
*sigh*

I ordered an H2612 (ratchet, 40mm, no becket), they sent me an H2618 (no-ratchet, 57mm, w/ becket), so basically everything about it is wrong. Guess I'll try again next week.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:51 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:41 pm
Posts: 50
Location: Cape Coral FL
Matt is correct that hobie still caries the H194, as I recently had to order a new one, and only my hobie dealer could get it. It is no longer a listed Harken part, west marine can't even get it. Harken is only supplying hobie with the H194.

The other BIG reason a racer wants the H194 is that you can move the fair lead used to make off the bitter end of the sheet to the side of the block, instead of in front of the block opposite the cleat. This allows for a different reeving that rotates the upper block for better "block-to-block" sheeting.

Here are some pics

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:04 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:45 pm
Posts: 20
Location: M-F: Quarryville, PA; Sat/Sun: Lewes, DE
Can you show a pic of the reeving you're talking about


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

_________________
Steve
'82 Hobie 16
Sail #64567
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:39 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:54 am
Posts: 20
I'm curious to see the reeving and block-to-block orientation with the side-becket thingy on the H194. Here's what Harken recommends with the new carbo blocks. The image shows it terminating at a becket, but you can also see the same reeving working with a loop on the back of the cam just as well. If you get rid of the becket and terminate on a loop on the cam, I can hardly imagine how block-to-block could get any shorter:

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:11 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Old Salt

Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 7:21 pm
Posts: 878
Location: Thunder Bay,On
Try this
http://hobiebob.blogspot.ca/search?upda ... results=39
If that does not work go to hobiebob blog and look up his posts in 2008 he has a nice pic.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:09 pm 
Offline
Site Rank - Captain

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:41 pm
Posts: 50
Location: Cape Coral FL
Here is the picture I used to reeve mine. Notice how the upper block is 90 degrees to the lower block, and there is NO twist in the sheet.

Also, in my pics above notice the 5/16 Salsa line, there is no substitute.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group