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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:13 am 
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I would love to have heard from you that "I would encourage someone with an old boat and non-class parts to participate."


6 of one... half dozen of the other sort of thing. This is just my personal opinion. I'm not the rules guy. Any changes would be up to the class association. There are a lot of sailboat classes with old boats out there... that don't change their rules.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:16 am 
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One rule that is not good to change is the CompTip. Imagine you have a guy at your event who doesn't have one and he sticks the mast into overhead wires... liability on this one is sketchy.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:43 am 
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Location: Clinton Lake, KS
jclarkdawe wrote:

What I'm hearing is that fleets are using a wink and nod approach. Show up and sure, we'll let your illegal boat race. Well maybe. Probably. I just spent a few hours on the road and no one is sure whether I can race or not. That's encouraging. And this is assuming I figure out Hobie fleets have a wink and nod approach and don't follow the rules that they say are the rules. I guess I'm wondering what other rules Hobie has a wink and nod approach. Is port/starboard a wink and nod as well?


Jim Clark-Dawe



Not sure if there is anything we are supposed to file with the HCANA to note that an exemption has been given...





13.3
a)A COMPTIP shall be mandatory for the
North American Region with the exception
of the Hobie Dragoon, Hobie FX
-
One andHobie Fox, which shall be raced worldwide
with an aluminium mast. All sailors will be
allowed one exemption to this rule. After the
one exemption is granted, the onus is on
the individual to prove that an attempt has
been made to obtain a COMPTIP.
In the
case of factory back orders on COMPTIPs,
temporary exemption will be granted upon

IHCA Rule Book 2013
-
2016 rev. 130104
Page7 proof of such back order and only until back
order is filled.
b)COMPTIP and aluminium masts shall be legal in the South America Region.
c)All aluminium masts are mandatory in the
South Pacific, African, European, North Pacific and International Regions with the exception of the H
-
17 in Europe where
COMPTIP and ALUMINIUM masts are legal
for H17 boats manufactured before 1 January 1995 and Hobie 17 COMPTIP masts
shall be mandatory in the South Pacific Region. Hobie Dragoons built in 2003 and prior
(as engraved on the Hobie Cat Co. plaque
affixed on the rear beam) may
continue touse the COMPTIP when racing in North
American Region.


Last edited by ronholm on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:47 am 
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mmiller wrote:
One rule that is not good to change is the CompTip. Imagine you have a guy at your event who doesn't have one and he sticks the mast into overhead wires... liability on this one is sketchy.



????

I get that... Switch back and one goofball is going to fry his wife he was trying to off anyway... Then sue Hobie and the Class because.... he can...


But I really can't think of any other boat which has a comp tip for this purpose?

The only main difference I guess being that being a beach cat on beach wheels one might often get further from the beaten path then would be typical for a boat/mas of the same size...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:52 am 
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The issue is liability for the boats with Comptips.... and a rule that protects the class and event organizers. You make a change and the liability could rest on your shoulders. Other boats / brands without, would not be an issue. You are not over-riding a rule in their case.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:43 am 
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Location: New Hampshire
ronholm wrote:
Not sure if there is anything we are supposed to file with the HCANA to note that an exemption has been given...

If you read the HCANA rules, I'm not sure that an exemption can be given. Technically.

However, maybe an approach is to incorporate into the sailing instructions or notice of race something like the following:

"The race director, at his or her sole discretion, may allow boats that are more then twenty years old, to sail in this regatta although said sailboat is not compliant with the one class rules for the Hobie 16. Sailors interested in using this provision should contact the race director prior to the regatta, advice the race director in what way(s) their boat is not compliant, and request permission of the race director to sail their boat under this provision."

Provides a way for the boat to be legal for the regatta and the sailor to get advance approval prior to spending the time and money to drive to the race. Keeps everything legal and no longer a wink and nod approach.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:53 am 
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On a lighter note. I can understand the purpose of the comptip.......... But for the guy that gets his cat anywhere near overhead lines with the mast up, well, he is just plain dumb...........

He dont need to be sailing to begin with.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:14 pm 
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But for the guy that gets his cat anywhere near overhead lines with the mast up, well, he is just plain dumb


It happens though. The class had a strict rule about masts down when leaving the beach in San Felipe... Signs, warnings. Guy still rolled his boat up off the beach, looking up at the wires as he went into the parking lot... "I can make it under these wires"... POW!... Then it's not the sailor who sues. It's his family.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:26 pm 
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When I first got my boat I planned to figure out how to set it up in the front yard. I had a copy of the manual and of course it says over and over again 'beware of overhead lines'. I thought, 'who would be stupid enough to raise their mast into a power line?'. Finally I got the tramp laced, and the rigging sorted and was ready to raise the mast, and at the last minute I look up. There are the power lines, right there :O. Most people don't seem to think I'm stupid, but I think if the warnings had not been all over the manual I would at least have come a lot closer to hitting those lines.
Now keep in mind that these are the residence side of the transformer so 1) the lines are low enough that a comp tip would not have helped, and 2) it is only 120V so I would probably be more likely to harmed by the falling mast after I dropped it and jumped away than by the current itself. But still, you can see how it could happen: you can raise the mast anywhere and when you are doing it you are pretty busy and there is a lot of stuff you have to do and look at, so it would not be too hard to not notice power lines.
Having said all that, I don't have a comp tip mast and I'm not super likely to get one. I live on Oahu, so shipping one here would be quite expensive. There are used masts the come up for sale (I have three), but they are solid masts from older boats that are being parted out. I'm not super likely to have the time to race, nor do I feel like I really have the skills, but if I did, this would be a problem that could keep me away.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:11 pm 
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The question in my mind is where will it be in twenty years and if there are ways we can help improve its chances of survival.

this is the question, and concern of this thread i think. not only the comp-tip. just look at that one dudes results he posted in this thread, from some regatta. 6 Hobie 16's. two, maybe three times that many laser's, opti's, sunfish.

this should concern Hobie Cat and HCANA.

also look at the ages of the Hobie racers. 75% 40 and up?

there needs to be youth injected. it needs to be all inclusive.

take a look at most fleet websites, or even the division websites. disappointing. youth may also inject some energy into that since they live on their computers/tablets/cell phones and love social media and the internet.

i hang out with a much younger crowd, all water people, all athletic, all into the ocean/water...swimmers/h2o polo players/surfers/paddlers, etc...

gas is expensvie. green is hip, motors and engines are out.

they are turning to SUPS, Kayaks, Surf Mats, triathlons, etc...

these folks are amping to get out on the water, they are searching for a more organic activity than seadoos and jet boats.

most of them dont even know what a hobie cat is. (their dads do though)
the few that do, dont see them or know where to buy them.
95% of them think kayak and surfing when they hear the name Hobie.
they all agree the AC was awesome but then have a puzzled look on their face at the mention of a Hobie Cat.
yes i take them sailing, they love it.
while rigging the boat some of them have issues with such old technology(ie - the rudder system, the mast step issues)
i explain its a 44 year old design.
they say - good grief man, there has to be a better way, are there any newer Hobies?
I say yes the hot shot boats are over 20k
i explain used 16's are the best way to get into the sport.
then i explain that the old/cheap ones will have the old rudder design and the PITA mast stepping and you cant race em.
how bout a new 16 they ask - i say "EFF YES, get one."
they reply - "does it have the 44 yr old designed rudders and mast stepping?"
i say - "yep"
they reply - "but how does the mast stepping affect speed and racing?"

they ask why i dont race.
my response -
i have non hobie shrouds
i have a cool home made bracket on the bridle that removes slack from the forestay and clears it of the jib once the rig is tightened.
i have repaired sails (old albeit) that most likely are no longer class legal.

once while searching youtube for hobie vids i came across an italian youth event - all these young groms digging racing 16's with spins.

some guy in this forum not along ago suggested spins on the 16 may help the class pick up some steam again, and grow.

he got clowned out of the room for mentioning such a thing.

was told it would "split the class"

haha split the class? what, all 100 of em? really?

of those 100 most have new 16s anyway. Id say in 2 yrs those 100 would all have the spins anyway.

is it possible the class is already split - the haves vs the have nots? the haves being the 100 that actually race more than once per year.

im not trying to be a jerk here or point fingers or step on toes.

im thinking aloud over a few Tecates.

my pops bought his first Hobie in 1975 and ive lived and enjoyed the Hobie lifestyle ever since. I dig it. I remain loyal to the brand, I love the logo. Hobie Alter is a legend in my eyes. It saddens me to see or hear about it possibly struggling or not being around in 20 yrs. it saddens me to see Hobie as a fishing/plastic kayak company at boat shows. i see youths loving sailing in harbors at sailing schools pluggin along in lasers, optis, shoe boats. I see that and think to myself, I was sailing alone on a Hobie 3.5 when i was 11 yrs old, in the open ocean mind you. How have these old boring monohulls survived and stayed a strong OD class and yet Hobie appears to be on the decline? oh and they dont have comptips either.

again, im not venting anger here.

just asking some questions.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:50 am 
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Questions:

Quote:
i have non hobie shrouds
i have a cool home made bracket on the bridle that removes slack from the forestay and clears it of the jib once the rig is tightened.
i have repaired sails (old albeit) that most likely are no longer class legal.


None of the above is against Hobie Class Rules.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:30 am 
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Location: Clinton, Mississippi
sxrracer wrote:
On a lighter note. I can understand the purpose of the comptip.......... But for the guy that gets his cat anywhere near overhead lines with the mast up, well, he is just plain dumb...........

He dont need to be sailing to begin with.


I've done it....post-Katrina at OSYC. Temporary service drop was across crowded parking lot, not it's usual underground location. Drove right into it but stopped/backed up without so much as a spark.....no damage to boat, line, or club.....very lucky. Not sure whether or not the comp-tip had anything to to with it, though.

I've seen it happen to other folks (that are otherwise careful) when things were out of sorts for one reason or another.

From what I read some time back, the boat in a (the) lawsuit had some control issues and drifted into the low portion of a bridge that had electric cable running along its side.....not exactly dumb.

It doesn't bother me personally, but those are some pretty harsh words. You better keeping looking up.....might be bad "Katma"! :P

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Last edited by rattle 'n hum on Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:53 pm 
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yeah, I just realized that I have probably jinxed myself!!!!!!!!!!!

Wait, I have a comptip!!!!!!!!!!!!


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzapppppppppppppppppp


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:21 pm 
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I agree with gino. I'm still not a hobie sailor, I'm looking for a boat to buy. But at my age (16) out of 2000 students from my old school only 4 sailed, and now in my new school here in south florida I'm probably the only one. Whenever I used to take friends to sail with me they loved it, but wouldn't get into the sport because of its complexness. There needs to be and youth "injection" for the hobie class.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:35 pm 
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When I had my '81 16 and sold it in '94, the dealer I sold it through up graded it to a comp tip mast by cutting the old mast and adding the comp tip; can the tip still be retrofitted? Are the comp tips available for sale?


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