Heavy Boat/Heavy Air Tacking

We had three people on the boat (around 470 lbs) yesterday for the first time. The winds were 15-20, gusting to 25, and the lake was very choppy. I had a hard time tacking the boat and got stuck in irons more times than I successfully tacked. Regardless of speed, as soon as the bow would get into the wind, the boat would stop dead. Was it me, the fact that the boat was heavy with the windy conditions, or a combination of both? How can I tack better next time in the same situation? Thanks.

Alan

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2005 Hobie 16 - Ventura Nationals Boat #21
http://www.JackieandAlan.com

If there's a flaw to the 16, it is that it's the worst at making turns of all hobies. Chop and weight are your worst enemies. You can do everything to try to combat it; initiating a smooth turn with the rudders and by not slamming them over, back winding the jib, etc. I'll cut to the chase, with the weight you had and the chop, there is not enough momentum to get you across the wind. You have to jibe the 16 and should learn to be comfortable doing so. Don't worry about the boat, just worry about your crews heads. Jibe is not a bad word. It works and when you do it properly it makes you a better sailor, to yourself and your crew.

Try this,

Get a good amount of speed prior to tacking.
Turn the boat firmly in to the wind .
As you get head to wind release 8-10" of mainsheet.
Do not uncleat the jib yet, allow it to back wind.
If the boat stops, reverse your rudders and push the main to windward, this makes you do a 3 pt turn.
Release the jib on the new tack.
Pull the bows down with the tiller.
DO NOT SHEET THE MAIN UNTIL YOU ARE MOVING ON THE NEW TACK!!!!

If it is quite breezy be careful to not go over backwards while head to wind

This is a cruising tack. With practice you will find that you are backwinding less and less and you will learn to sail the boat thru the tack.

If it is in fact blowing over 20, I would love to watch you jibe with 3 on the boat

Practice, practice, Practice

Thanks for the help. I never even considered jibing because of the conditions. We've been practicing jibing, but only on light-air days. The last time I jibed on a moderate-air day, we flipped stern over bow. I can't imagine what would happen on a heavy air day during a jibe. When we went head to wind during the tack, we all had to sometimes dive to the front of the tramp to keep it from flipping over backwards. Woo! Hoo!

I thought that three people on the boat would make it easier to sail in heavy air. Boy.....was I wrong.

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2005 Hobie 16 - Ventura Nationals Boat #21
http://www.JackieandAlan.com

Think about moving crew weight back. if you're kinda new at sailing you may also want to center the traveler and sheet in to reduce power before a jibe.

As you get better you'll learn how to control the main with one hand while holding the tiller in the other. That'll eliminate the boom and traveler from slamming across the boat which causes instant power forward and, long term, blowing up the traveler car. You'll also reduce the chance of denting someone's dome.

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Tom is right, except, I've been in the ocean when it was white capping with lots of chop and the most dangerous part of the day was when I stalled trying the "3 pt". The boat was rocking so bad I was at the base of the mast hanging on for dear life. I jibed the rest of the day and was fine. I never came to a complete stop, which is bad in certain conditions. When I jibe, I grab my main sheet right below my block and swing it over before the wind loads it up. I never like to lose momentum especially in choppy conditions. 16's and 18's are like rocks, you can't hurt them.

When you jibe in heavy air, sheet the main in so if you loose control of it, the boom will not fly across the tramp as your sterns come across the wind. It will also make it much less violent.

You will still be able to tack, but with all the extra people on the boat they have to really understand where to put thier weight and when to make is successful. This takes practice.

Good luck and have fun!

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Nick

Current Boat
In the market
Previous boats owned
'74 Pearson 30
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
St. Louis, MO

I had a sweet heavy air jibe the other day... I almost flipped the boat over backwards! I called it a lazy jibe.. because I was lazy in getting over to the other side and the entire stern was buried and the bows started to go vertical. I monkey'd my way up the tramp and it settled back down and all was good.

The very next day it was gusting to 26... I had issues tacking because of high waves would push me back before I could get setup on the new tack... had to jibe then too... but it was no big deal, I learned from my mistake the day before.

Also, now I learned NOT to unclean the jib, I was uncleating it everytime which probably aided in the failed tacks.

Barren, how could the bow go vertical and boat flip over backwards in a jibe if the wind is coming from behind the boat? Just curious....

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2005 Hobie 16 - Ventura Nationals Boat #21
http://www.JackieandAlan.com

LOL... I'm not entirely sure... I'll lay out the story for you but I think the answer is that I'm over 250 lbs and was in the wrong spot. It didn't flip backwards by the way... the stern just buried and the bows came up. It only took a second or two... and I had it level again by climbing up the tramp.

I was just coming back into the bay that leads to the harbor.. it's a relatively narrow entryway, I was heading SW with an East wind, so I'm sitting on the port side of the boat... and I did the jibe, turning NW in a clockwise motion, the boom swung over and the weight all shifted but I didn't move cause I froze up or something.. I just was being slow and lazy about it... suddenly the port stern was buried and both bows were coming up. I climbed up tramp and it settled down.... sheeted in and off I went... and moved back to the starboard aft part of the tramp once it was all settled. I believe it all took place as the boom and weight shifted, there was too much weight aft and it decided it was going to tip a bit. It wasn't a big deal, just reminded me that I can't be lazy when jibing.

Nearly this same thing happened on my 14. As I did a lazy jibe in pretty high wind a wave came over the back of the tramp and the stern took a dive, and I do not mean just water on the tramp, it nearly rolled over backwards!!!

This is purely speculation but I think when you jibe and the wind is coming from behind you and a wave comes over the bows and closes off the air flow under the tramp; it forms a wing. I think that air that is forced over the tramp creates lift and tries to lift the front of the boat and since the captain is usually near the rear of the tramp his weight helps the lift which in turn creats more angle and lift. Then the mast helps as it leans back.

This is the best reason that I can figure out why this would happen, I have seen two other cats on the lake I sail on do the same thing on a jibe. Is this not something that has been talked about before? I figured that Hobie would have this figured out and it would be something that is talked about.

Does anyone have info on this??

As for high wind tacking, it is possible, after alot of practice I have gotten where I can bring my 14T around in nearly any wind I have been out in even without the jib, there is nothing harder to tack than an old school 14, with the jib it is really easy. Surely the 16 does better than a 14 due to the added momentum over the 14.

I like the new ranks!!!

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Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!

I'll theorize that if turning downwind and the boat continues turning significantly past dead downwind (180) to say 135, and then the jibe occurs, and the skipper is at the back, and the waves are just right

As stated earlier by someone, grabbing the sheets just below the blocks attached to the boom and forcing/helping the boom across is the proper technique. That way the jibe occurs closer to DDW.

And thank you, I spend quite a bit of time outside

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hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297

Yeah, it happened because I was being lazy about it... I let it swing on it's own instead of moving it myself... Too much weight in that spot all at once! I don't think I'll do it again... it wasn't a big deal as I said, I climbed up the tramp and it layed down fine... I got drenched but hey, thats why I sail a hobie! I laughed it off and learned something, so it's all good.

BTW... I thought I would add to this post..

I went out yesterday in a rare 80 degree October day here in Wisconsin with 12-15mph winds gusting to 20. The direction wasn't very favorable for me because it was rough on this side of the lake but I decided it was probably the last time I could get out this year and I had better go out!

Tacking was not a problem at all... I did as instructed above, leaving the jib cleated until the main had already shifted to the other side. It resolved a lot of issues actually, the jib battens didn't get caught on anything in the transfer because it filled with air quickly when I uncleated it after completing the tack.

It worked great! I did several tacks... I know this wasn't really "heavy" air, but the gusts made it tricky at times.

Barren, were you soloing your boat?

When I was having the most trouble was when I had an extra person on the boat and was heavy. Also, I don't think I was turning fast enough and was bleeding off a lot of speed before getting head to wind.

Glad you had a good day.

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2005 Hobie 16 - Ventura Nationals Boat #21
http://www.JackieandAlan.com