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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:02 pm 
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Posts: 48
This may be a silly question.

I'm waiting for a new Hobie 16 to arrive and I'm making up a accessories and spares list. I don't want to order things I don't need, but I don't want to find that I need to change something because I forgot to order it.

1. Is the Aussie Jib Halyard (PN 80660000) now standard? I sort of thought it was.

2. Does a new boat come with a Jib Traveler adjustment hardware or do I need to install/upgrade with PN 1071?

3. For the 6:1 downhaul what do I need more than PN's 2089 and 1511?

4. For the Hobie Trailer, I asked for the double roller kit and the rear mast stand. I may end up towing the boat all over Mexico and perhaps to Canada. Is that the right combo?

5. Is the stock tiller extension ok or should I change/upgrade? What PN should I get?

I'm also getting a spares package for the 2 club boats:

PN 30306 spare parts bags, one for each boat.
PN 1621 Cat Trax for each boat
One Jib Batten set
One Main Batten set
PN 20617001 Main Halyard

It's been suggested that a spare mast would be good and maybe a pair of spare rudders?

We have a good local supplier for dinghy lines and hardware for things like compasses and wind indicators.
Recommendation for a compass?
Is the Velocitek Pro-Start legal?

Is the Davis Telo Cat wind indicator a good choice?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:30 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 7:21 pm
Posts: 887
Location: Thunder Bay,On
1 Yes
2 Yes
3 no
4 Yes
5 Stock is good
Not sure about compass or Velocitech
Davis Telocat is a very good choice
Man I wish I had your budget.If your coming up to Canada bring some spare parts,I might need them.
Just curious What would bring you up here?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4583
Location: Detroit, MI
Velocitek Prostart is not class legal for racing - nor is any GPS-based device.

The new Velocitek Shift is legal, but it's big, clunky and expensive.

The Tack-Tic Micro is a better choice (and 100% class legal), although mounting on a Hobie 16 is problematic. Some put it on the front crossbar; others have a bracket on the bridle (which essentially puts it out of reach).


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:53 am 
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Location: Thunder Bay,On
Interested to see how to mount the Tack Tic is mounted on crossbar?
If I was investing in something like the Tack Tic,this would be my choice.
http://sites.garmin.com/quatix/


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:58 am 
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Location: Charlottesville, VA
I suppose it depends what you plan to do with the boat, but I can't see carrying a spare mast around on a trip. Wherever you go, you'll probably have access to one and if you need a new mast you might be needing other major stuff as well. Even for the three boats together, I can't say that an extra mast would be money well spent. A rudder blade or two, OK.

Other than the 30306 kit, I think I would buy some additional quick-release hardware such as the Ronstan halyard shackle that I use on the jib. Love it. Extra ball-lock pins or shackles with captive ball-lock pins for wherever you want them. I try to make my boat easy to rig with the minimum number of droppable parts.

The tiller extension is just preference. I had a Hot Stick on my old boat and it was nice for day sailing. Moving forward and backward on the tramp was easier with the telescoping stick. It did slip occasionally, but it was very worn and the boat had a ton of weather helm with its old rudder castings. I suppose a disadvantage could be that since it is fatter and stiffer, there's more twisting force on the crossbar bolt when the extension gets dropped under the tiller. It looks like the newer ones have an 'elastically coupled hinge' which might alleviate the issue... mine dated back to 1990 or so, and didn't have anything like that.

What are you doing for traps? Have you considered keyhole (Bethwaite) connectors instead of the standard hooks? Difficult if you need compatibility with other boats, but otherwise you might want to consider them.

Oh, and I'd buy materials for a trap return system like Dave Ball's or the Hobie Deluxe system (but don't just buy the Hobie system, make your own).

_________________
'00 H16 #104691 - '78 H16 #32692 ex-rental - Old Holsclaw trailer
My Hobie 16 pages


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:23 pm
Posts: 48
mmadge wrote:
1 Yes
2 Yes
3 no
4 Yes
5 Stock is good
Not sure about compass or Velocitech
Davis Telocat is a very good choice
Man I wish I had your budget.If your coming up to Canada bring some spare parts,I might need them.
Just curious What would bring you up here?


Thank you so much for the concise reply! You saved my program a whack of cash!

I live in BC and Nayarit. Vancouver area in the summer and the Puerto Vallarta area in the winter. PV and Banderas Bay is a natural Hobie 16 place. Vallarta YC hosted the sailing of the last Pa-Ams and I worked the Hobie course as a race officer. The seed was planted that "We should have these at the club."

VYC has hosted the J-24 worlds, Opti-NAM, and the Pan-AMs. We are hosting Opti-NAM again in 2014. Our WesMex Small boat regatta has been embraced as on of the big 4 or 5 small boat events on the FMV National circuit. This year FMV has added Hobie's to the Opti's, Lasers, RSX boards, and 420's. I have about 120 days to come up with a VYC Hobie team. My personal goal is to lose 20 pounds and not finish last. :-)

As it happens I came into a bit of cash when my mother died. She was a sailor "in her courting days" (the 40's) and sailed Stars and other boats. She would be happy to see the Junior program at VYC expand to a youth program and for the club to provide boats for people with passion and skill but no budget of their own.

I'm seeding the program with two very well maintained H16's and spares. The Club has a few race quality Opti's but the program does not produce enough income to buy good Lasers. A new Laser with the race rigging is about the same price as a Hobie 16. Looking at it objectively, Two 15 year old kids will spend 24k USD to start sailing Lasers. The Hobie looks pretty good in comparison.

Like any other group of kids the fun and social side of sail racing is #1. I think the Hobie is a great fit for the club and for sailing in Mexico. It is not an Olympic Class like the Laser, but it is a Pan-AM and South American class. I think it provides a better chance for our club sailors to place well than Laser's or RSX boards. It also fits a parent/child team better than the other options.

In field of dreams they said "Build it, they will come." I think a multihull program will work and make our club and sailing program stronger. I willing to provide the seed money to see if the Hobies generate lasting interest.

Sorry, too much information... :(


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 7:21 pm
Posts: 887
Location: Thunder Bay,On
Interested in more ,sent you an e- mail.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:23 pm
Posts: 48
AntonLargiader wrote:
I suppose it depends what you plan to do with the boat, but I can't see carrying a spare mast around on a trip. Wherever you go, you'll probably have access to one and if you need a new mast you might be needing other major stuff as well. Even for the three boats together, I can't say that an extra mast would be money well spent. A rudder blade or two, OK.

Other than the 30306 kit, I think I would buy some additional quick-release hardware such as the Ronstan halyard shackle that I use on the jib. Love it. Extra ball-lock pins or shackles with captive ball-lock pins for wherever you want them. I try to make my boat easy to rig with the minimum number of droppable parts.

The tiller extension is just preference. I had a Hot Stick on my old boat and it was nice for day sailing. Moving forward and backward on the tramp was easier with the telescoping stick. It did slip occasionally, but it was very worn and the boat had a ton of weather helm with its old rudder castings. I suppose a disadvantage could be that since it is fatter and stiffer, there's more twisting force on the crossbar bolt when the extension gets dropped under the tiller. It looks like the newer ones have an 'elastically coupled hinge' which might alleviate the issue... mine dated back to 1990 or so, and didn't have anything like that.

What are you doing for traps? Have you considered keyhole (Bethwaite) connectors instead of the standard hooks? Difficult if you need compatibility with other boats, but otherwise you might want to consider them.

Oh, and I'd buy materials for a trap return system like Dave Ball's or the Hobie Deluxe system (but don't just buy the Hobie system, make your own).


Great input Anton! Thank you.

Things like fast pins and shackles are easy for after we have the program in the water. I have a pretty good feel for that sort of rigging stuff and will make a list as I rig and unrig the boats a few times.

If you have part numbers for things please share!

I have not spent enough time sailing a trap boat to have an opinion. Hell I don't even know what a Bethwaite connector looks like! Got pics? part #'s? :-)

I've lurked just enough to know that the centuries of experience here are a gold mine. So I want to sponge all I can!

Cheers,

Randy


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4583
Location: Detroit, MI
mmadge wrote:
Interested to see how to mount the Tack Tic is mounted on crossbar?
If I was investing in something like the Tack Tic,this would be my choice.
http://sites.garmin.com/quatix/

Billy Jeffers mounts his Tack Tic on the front crossbar with an aluminum plate, L-shaped bracket between the mast and jib hardware on the stbd. side. I can only imagine how much of your butt that would take off in a pitchpole - not to mention, you just knocked your $500 compass into the water (Goodbye!).

I use a mount that clips in to the bottom hole of the forestay adjuster and holds the Tack Tic between the bridle wires. There's a safety leash on it that clips to a bridle wire. If it gets knocked off the mount, the leash keeps it attached to the boat.

That Garmin watch is not class legal because it's GPS based (a navigation / speed-measuring device).


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:28 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:55 pm
Posts: 50
4. I recently got a new trailer and boat as well. I got a trailex trailer with the single rollers on the rear and these H16 cradles for the front http://sailboxes.com/hobie-16-hull-cradles.html They are molded for the 16 hull shape and hold the boat in place so well.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:10 am
Posts: 740
Location: Indianapolis, IN
ConnorG wrote:
and these H16 cradles for the front http://sailboxes.com/hobie-16-hull-cradles.html They are molded for the 16 hull shape and hold the boat in place so well.

I'm sure you already know this, but be careful about moisture between the hulls and the cradle carpet. The gelcoat can blister if it is constantly damp like that.

_________________
Zach


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:00 pm
Posts: 293
Location: Charlottesville, VA
RHoughVYC wrote:
If you have part numbers for things please share!

Here's the jib halyard shackle: http://www.ronstan.com/marine/range.asp?RnID=205

It makes the jib halyard as easy as the main. Note that I have no idea what ships on the end of current jib halyards (on the block of the Aussie system); I just know that the Aussie that I bought for my old boat and the one that came on my new boat did not have anything that simple. Maybe a regular threaded-pin shackle? Hate 'em. Well, they're great for what they are, but on the jib halyard you don't need low-profile so there's room for a larger, stronger quick-release.

Quote:
I have not spent enough time sailing a trap boat to have an opinion. Hell I don't even know what a Bethwaite connector looks like! Got pics? part #'s? :-)

This is potentially a long story. Since the beginning of time (late '70s I think) trap harnesses have used hooks. There have been rare instances of severe injury or death when the harness hook gets caught on and then twisted into a shroud or some other line during a capsize, even among very experienced sailors. As a result, several other systems have been devised, like hooks on plates that come off when you pull a trip cord. This has been written about on this forum before.

The Bethwaite (aka Key-ball) system has a ball (on the trap wire) and a keyhole-shaped slot on the harness plate. There's little to catch on the rigging, and as long as you can push downward you can disengage it from the trap wire. Another advantage is that when you are climbing back onto a capsized boat, you don't have a big metal hook sticking out of your belly trying to gouge the hull.

Disregarding my own safety for a moment, I sail with various neighbors' kids and can't imagine having to explain a bad outcome to them that resulted from a system that I already knew had inherent danger, so I converted to the Bethwaite system. I suspect that if trapezes had been created with a system like that at the beginning, we'd all be using them now. But there is market entrenchment of the hook & eye system. If your club boats don't require harness compatibility with other boats, you might consider this.

http://www.murrays.com/mm5/merchant.mvc ... re_Code=MS

_________________
'00 H16 #104691 - '78 H16 #32692 ex-rental - Old Holsclaw trailer
My Hobie 16 pages


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:35 pm
Posts: 607
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
RHoughVYC wrote:
mmadge wrote:
1 Yes
2 Yes
3 no
4 Yes
5 Stock is good
Not sure about compass or Velocitech
Davis Telocat is a very good choice
Man I wish I had your budget.If your coming up to Canada bring some spare parts,I might need them.
Just curious What would bring you up here?


Thank you so much for the concise reply! You saved my program a whack of cash!

I live in BC and Nayarit. Vancouver area in the summer and the Puerto Vallarta area in the winter. PV and Banderas Bay is a natural Hobie 16 place. Vallarta YC hosted the sailing of the last Pa-Ams and I worked the Hobie course as a race officer. The seed was planted that "We should have these at the club."

VYC has hosted the J-24 worlds, Opti-NAM, and the Pan-AMs. We are hosting Opti-NAM again in 2014. Our WesMex Small boat regatta has been embraced as on of the big 4 or 5 small boat events on the FMV National circuit. This year FMV has added Hobie's to the Opti's, Lasers, RSX boards, and 420's. I have about 120 days to come up with a VYC Hobie team. My personal goal is to lose 20 pounds and not finish last. :-)

As it happens I came into a bit of cash when my mother died. She was a sailor "in her courting days" (the 40's) and sailed Stars and other boats. She would be happy to see the Junior program at VYC expand to a youth program and for the club to provide boats for people with passion and skill but no budget of their own.

I'm seeding the program with two very well maintained H16's and spares. The Club has a few race quality Opti's but the program does not produce enough income to buy good Lasers. A new Laser with the race rigging is about the same price as a Hobie 16. Looking at it objectively, Two 15 year old kids will spend 24k USD to start sailing Lasers. The Hobie looks pretty good in comparison.

Like any other group of kids the fun and social side of sail racing is #1. I think the Hobie is a great fit for the club and for sailing in Mexico. It is not an Olympic Class like the Laser, but it is a Pan-AM and South American class. I think it provides a better chance for our club sailors to place well than Laser's or RSX boards. It also fits a parent/child team better than the other options.

In field of dreams they said "Build it, they will come." I think a multihull program will work and make our club and sailing program stronger. I willing to provide the seed money to see if the Hobies generate lasting interest.

Sorry, too much information... :(

Your my hero. Wow.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:23 pm
Posts: 48
AntonLargiader wrote:
RHoughVYC wrote:
If you have part numbers for things please share!

Here's the jib halyard shackle: http://www.ronstan.com/marine/range.asp?RnID=205

It makes the jib halyard as easy as the main. Note that I have no idea what ships on the end of current jib halyards (on the block of the Aussie system); I just know that the Aussie that I bought for my old boat and the one that came on my new boat did not have anything that simple. Maybe a regular threaded-pin shackle? Hate 'em. Well, they're great for what they are, but on the jib halyard you don't need low-profile so there's room for a larger, stronger quick-release.

Quote:
I have not spent enough time sailing a trap boat to have an opinion. Hell I don't even know what a Bethwaite connector looks like! Got pics? part #'s? :-)

This is potentially a long story. Since the beginning of time (late '70s I think) trap harnesses have used hooks. There have been rare instances of severe injury or death when the harness hook gets caught on and then twisted into a shroud or some other line during a capsize, even among very experienced sailors. As a result, several other systems have been devised, like hooks on plates that come off when you pull a trip cord. This has been written about on this forum before.

The Bethwaite (aka Key-ball) system has a ball (on the trap wire) and a keyhole-shaped slot on the harness plate. There's little to catch on the rigging, and as long as you can push downward you can disengage it from the trap wire. Another advantage is that when you are climbing back onto a capsized boat, you don't have a big metal hook sticking out of your belly trying to gouge the hull.

Disregarding my own safety for a moment, I sail with various neighbors' kids and can't imagine having to explain a bad outcome to them that resulted from a system that I already knew had inherent danger, so I converted to the Bethwaite system. I suspect that if trapezes had been created with a system like that at the beginning, we'd all be using them now. But there is market entrenchment of the hook & eye system. If your club boats don't require harness compatibility with other boats, you might consider this.

http://www.murrays.com/mm5/merchant.mvc ... re_Code=MS


Great links. Thank you.

I guess I'm a visual guy. The Bethwaite system didn't "click" until I saw the pictures. I like the idea and understand the concerns it addresses. Funny that two of my all time sailing heroes come together again. Hobie Alter the surfer dude natural genius and the high tech bore you to death numbers approach of the Bethwaite's ... I love it!

I can see that if you were used to either system it might be a big ask to change. One of the possible used for our little Hobie 16 fleet is as charter boats for events (if we don't have VYC members sailing).

Probably need a new thread? What is the expectation if you fly to a regatta and charter a boat?

If you use a non standard system, would you expect to bring it and re-rig your charter?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:23 pm
Posts: 48
Hobie needs to step up ...
Image
Sorry to rant ... when you buy a Trailex trailer from Hobie Cat it should be up to the Hobie standard. That means assembly instructions for the specific version of the trailer you spent $$$$ Hobie $$$$ to buy. What you get is one bit of paper that says to got to the Trailex Website to find the assembly sheet ... The Hobie part # and the Trailex part #'s are not the same. So it is not possible to find the instructions.

Why pay top $$$ for stuff from Hobie if the basic support is lacking? (This may explain why three of the four Dealers I contacted for quotes did *NOT* quote the Hobie/Trailex trailer.)

That said, I used to be a rigger and my friend and I figured it out from the photos in the Hobie Catalog ... most everything else I get from Hobie has good instructions. (Yes, that is three new Hobie 16's in boxes in the background)

If Trailex wants to be listed in the Hobie Catalog they need to step up to the high standards we expect from Hobie.

GREAT trailer! I LOVE it! The lack of instructions made putting it together a pain in the butt ...

Randy Hough
Grupo deportiva Bahia de Banderas


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