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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:01 am 
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
Looking for some advice with replacing a die cast gudgeon on a 2007 model H16. The gudgeon itself is structurally fine but I noticed today that the upper rudder pin hole has been broken. So my question relates to the locking gudgeon screws which work simular to a nylock nut into the aluminium transom plate.

Has anybody replaced theirs?
Did they require new locking gudgeon screws or did they simply re-use the existing ones?
Any issues I should consider or plan for?
And did you use Loctite on the screws upon refitting?

Cheers in advance, Matt

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2007 H16 - 'Slingshot' 110009/110678


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:08 am 
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Location: Virginia Beach VA
I bought all new gudgeon screws from Hobie. Its a small expense. I also tapped out the holes to clean up the threads (#12-28 I think) and used 3M 5200 since these are hull penetrations below the waterline. (At the time Loctite did not make any marine products.) Your biggest task will be getting the old screws out especially if the boat has spent any time in salt water. Might want to have some easy-outs on hand. The heads strip out pretty easily and sometimes even break off.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:07 am 
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sunvista wrote:
I bought all new gudgeon screws from Hobie. Its a small expense. I also tapped out the holes to clean up the threads (#12-28 I think) and used 3M 5200 since these are hull penetrations below the waterline. (At the time Loctite did not make any marine products.) Your biggest task will be getting the old screws out especially if the boat has spent any time in salt water. Might want to have some easy-outs on hand. The heads strip out pretty easily and sometimes even break off.

That's a bit of overkill.

Don't use 5200 if you ever want to get something apart again. 5200 = forever stuck together.

You can re-use the machine screws. A 2007 boat shouldn't be corroded tight (mine certainly isn't, but I sail mostly in fresh water).

Use a bit of regular silicone seal around each screw. Periodically check the screws to make sure they aren't loose. Go sailing!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:02 pm 
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Cheers for your responses. Trial and error will be the theme here. I haven't tried removing the screws just yet but assume them to be....ok. I do sail often in the ocean but clean well after use. I'll just try some silicone seal upon re-fitting the screws and keep an eye on them afterwards. I'll make the most of this and replace the casting brushing at the same time.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:35 am 
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Location: Jersey Shore
One of the keys to loosening tight gudgeon screws is to use a screw driver that fits the screw head really well. If the tip of your screw driver is worn or is too small, it will jump out of the screw head and you'll end up rounding out the screw. I was disassembling the gudgeons on my 1985 boat (which has been ocean sailed and stored on the beach) recently and although some of the screws were very tight, I managed to get them apart by using a brand new #3 screw driver tip in my screw driver. It's also helpful if you use a screw driver with a large, comfortable grip.

sm


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:46 pm 
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
I know all too well about tight screws i.e. using the correct size and using a high torque system rather than a small screw driver, cheers.

I've ordered the goods and some extra screws just in case I need replacements. My Hobie dealer also suggested that I use the new Euro brushings? as opposed to the standard Hobie ones 'casting brushing'. Does anybody have any experience with these?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:58 pm 
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Location: Harsens Island, Michigan
I have not had a need yet to do this, but one GREAT tool for loosening oxidized screws is an impact driver. They are cheap, about $10 and work great. They come with the bigger screwdriver bits and are great for breaking them free so that you can use a normal screwdriver on them to finish removal.

Just align it in the screw, put some tension on it and whack it with a hammer. After a couple of whacks the screw will be free and damage free.

I find that there are 2 kinds of people, those who have never used one, and those who can't believe they ever tried living without using one.

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1979 Hobie 16 "Orange Crusher"
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:09 pm 
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
Just an update,
Screws removed effortlessly and the install of a new gudgeon is all done. Used a ratchet wrench with screw driver attachments, ended up overkill really but did a nice clean job. Very happy with the result and the rudders are now super tight and smooth with new Euro brush castings and rudder stiffening kit. I used new locking gudgeon screws to ensure a clean install as the old ones did have minor visible signs consistent with being used. Silicone used on gudgeon and screws too.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:01 pm 
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What is this rudder stiffening kit you speak of?
Are "Euro Brushings" better than the std supplied Hobie ones?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:28 pm 
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Location: Clinton Lake, KS
The rudder stiffening kit I think is just some nylock nuts and washers to go b/t the castings and the rudders.. What I use, and like much better than the kit is parts of old plastic milk jugs.. It sounds kinda silly but works GREAT! I just take a hole saw (I think 1 1/2" but maybe 2") and cut some washers from the jugs.. Generally it takes three on each side of the rudder, as I wedge open the castings slightly to make them fit.. I try and open it just a bit because this causes(least on every set I have done thus far) the castings to fit more parallel to the rudders than does 'squeezing' them slightly to match the shims... You end up with a nice tight system that not only delievers a better 'feel', but is FAR easier to pop up and down, without scratching up the rudders.

So why not just use the factory kit you ask? Well... Cutting them in a larger diameter instead the smaller factory shim not only makes them far easier to install, but also the larger surface area I find helps support the rudder better AND makes it really, ridiculously easy to dial in the force required to lift and drop the rudder. Not to mention they are free... and if the milk jug isn't exactly the right thickness something in the recycle bin always is... IIRC my last boat ran the tops of the large peanut butter tubs one can buy at Sams club..



As for the "Euro" bushing kit... I am interested... Just bought a 2013 boat and it came with the nylon bushings already installed.. But the system still have more play than I like... I may end up machining some bronze bushings all around to make it perfect.. I dunno.. I am kind of a nut about the rudder system...

heck I already took the H20 tiller connections apart and tuned them up, and next week going to drill the rudders out oversize and install a proper delrin rod to redrill so that bolt will have a nice smooth ride! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:56 pm 
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Yep, the rudder stiffening kit comprises of nylock nuts and plastic washes which sit between your rudder and the upper and lower castings.
Easy to make the plastic washes yourself and the kit certainly helps to stiffen your rudders to keep them in the upright position for beaching etc.

I can't see any visible difference between the 'Euro' brushes and the ones already fixed to my 07 model hobie. On the proviso that my hobie wasn't already fitted with the 'Euro's' I believe my dealer here in Australia sources the Euro ones as opposed to the US ones as maybe the makeup of plastic is stronger???? Just a guess really but i'll ask when I next see them.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 7:07 pm 
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Thanks for that guys.
I'm a new Hobie 16 owner and just trying to fathom it all out. Mine is a 2003 model* with way too much play in the gudgeons, but with the deal I did get a packet of 10 bushes and a length of 3/8 ally tube to fix it.
After looking at the job and reading as much as I can here, I have a few questions
10 Bushings wont be enough right?
Are all post 2002 boats fitted with bushings from new?
Do the Hobie supplied bushings require 'trimming' to length?
Where is the best place to by some 25 mm Delrin in SE Qld?
Can anyone who has drilled these out and bushed them, explain how they did the job?
Sorry for all the questions.
Mick

*My hull identification is CCMB 3074. What do these numbers really mean?


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:58 pm 
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
Are you in SEQ Mick?
I see your e-mail is Australian which is great. Do you use facebook? If so check out the social sailing Hobie group I started here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/474123539363235/. If you don't use fb have alook here http://hobie-au.ning.com/group/seq-social-hobie-sailing. I'm always looking for other Hobie Cats to sail with.

10 Bushings wont be enough right? If you have the newer style die cast gudgeon you only need 8 - 4 per side. 3 fitted into the gudgeon and 1 where the pin goes through the hull. Although the brushes never seem to stay in the top hull one dependant on angles and pressure.
Are all post 2002 boats fitted with bushings from new? Regardless of year the brushes are always fitted to the die cast gudgeons. Not sure what year they were made standard.
Do the Hobie supplied bushings require 'trimming' to length? No, just slot them in.
Where is the best place to by some 25 mm Delrin in SE Qld? There's a lot of talk of people sourcing the rudder delrin screws from other places, like a Bunnings type hardware is the US. I've looked over here in Aus and think your best to just buy them directly from Sunstate Hobie. If your unable to make the trip up to the Brisbane store just ring Mal and Trish @ their Sunshine Coast store, orders taken over the phone and they will post them to you.
Can anyone who has drilled these out and bushed them, explain how they did the job? Are you talking about drilling out the old delrin screws or brushes? Both can sometimes be hard to remove but given you have an 02 model H16 they should remove easily. Brushes just need applied pressure, using something of the exact same size makes this easy or some soft hammer with screw driver action. Delrins screws on the other hand can be painful, lots recommend drilling out the centre as large as you can before damaging the threads. Then using a hammer/screw driver to clean out all the left over bits.

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