Found a H16. Wanting a second opinion

Hello people of the Hobnie Cat forums!

I am in the process of buying my first cat and think I came across a pretty good looking one. I am just wanting a second option on the boat. The boat is an 87' with sails in good shape and a trailer woithn new lights and tires. I like the colors of these sails. My only concern is that the tramp is a one piece and appears to have no hiking straps. How would I go about installing these or do I even really need them? The jib has a furler that I think would be helpful for learning. I would be able to get everything for $1200. Also the boat has no trapeze, but for for my first season its not a big worry.

So what are your thoughts?

Here is the ad link: http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/4834450771.html

Here is picture of the sails: http://i.imgur.com/IPkBbo3.jpg

Here is picture of boat: http://images.craigslist.org/00Q0Q_iyKV ... 00x450.jpg

Any thoughts would be appreciated! Also this will be a boat to learn to learn on for me.

The sails are not from an '87. That pattern (Fantasia) was from '85.

The boat appears to have been painted. Why?

Where are the rudders?

Otherwise, the photos don't really show much detail.

Hiking straps are not absolutely necessary, but they're really nice to have. Any canvas shop can install them.

The real test is for soft spots - something you can't tell from photos (well, not unless they're really bad). I cannot emphasize this enough - if the boat has soft spots - walk away. Unless you're buying it for parts.

I asked the seller about the hulls being painted, the rudders, and the soft spots. Is there any reason to be sketchy of painted hulls? When, or if I goto look at this boat I know to check for soft spots, and all the usual stuff. Is there anything else I should specifically check on this boat?

Thanks for the help!

Best thing to do might be to find a seasoned cat sailor that lives near you that can go with you to check out the boat. Assuming the hulls a solid and the boat comes with everything to hit the water and its an '87 for $1200 with the trailer it looks like it could be a good deal. Check on the laws where you're at concerning licensing the boat and trailer - you may need a title for both from the seller, can be a huge hassle if you need both and the seller has neither. Adding hiking straps can be done relatively easy, no biggie. Adding trapeze rigging, harnesses ect can end up pretty expensive if you plan on sailing in winds over 20mph with light people on board ( i didn't my first year or so - took it easy ).

The mast is a single piece aluminum mast ( no comptip ) might put the boat closer to 1980? look at the hull # on the back right hull just under the lip and see what the last numeric digits are ( 80,81,82,83,84,85 ect) Make sure your bill of sale has this exact full HIN# on it.

I'd offer $900 at first since you're going to want to spend a few hundred right off the bat on new standing rigging ( lines holding the mast up ), hiking straps, perhaps a hiking stick, righting line and new sheets for the main and jib. If they've replaced all that in the last couple, three years then you should be OK.

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Tim Grover

Memphis, TN fleet 134
Hobie 20! G-Cat5.0 and 2 Hobie 14's
Photobucket now wants $100 to post pics on forums......... pass.

Pics of the trailer would be helpful. It it's nice, I think $900 would be pretty insulting to the owner. If it's painted, it might be that the owner just didn't like the colored hulls.

Comptip and removal of reef points came (according to my notes) in 1985, so that boat predates those changes. The sails look OK; they're far from crisp but there's a limit to what you can expect from a $1000 30 year old boat.

Hull condition is critical. Get someone to look at the boat with you.

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'00 H16 #104691
'78 H16 #32692 ex-rental [gone]
Old Holsclaw trailer
My Hobie 16 pages

I bought my boat new in '85 and it came with the solid mast and reef points. I believe it was later that year that the comptip came out. I was offered the upgrade by Hobie at the end of '85. If the paint hasn't covered them, the serial numbers at the stern would give the year of manufacture as was mentioned in a post here. I did not change to the comptip. I don't race so am not concerned with being class legal.

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Howard

The boat seems to be an 85' and not the 87'. Since this will be my first year on the boat I will probably add a single trapeze next year or some point this year. All the running rigging and standing rigging was replaced last year. And also, excuse my lack of knowledge, what are reefing points and what do they do for the boat? Also for a boat of this age are the sails in good shape? Will I be safe to sail with them even if they aren't very crisp? They are 30 year old sails so what more could I do for them? The trailer has brand new lights, wheels and is ghalvanized. The seller says he has been working on it.

I am planning on going to check out the boat this weekend. Anybody know where/how I could find a cat sailor to come check out the boat with me?

In strong winds, reef points allow you to shorten the sail to reduce the area and de-power the boat. A little difficult to explain but the old wire halyard has two "slugs" on it, one to hold the sail all the way up and the second to let the sail come down where the reef points can be tied around the boom. The reef points were eliminated and the length of wire in the halyard reduced when the comptip mast came out. The purpose of the comptip was to reduce the accidents that occurred if the mast hit electric wires. If the sail was reefed, the wire in the halyard would defeat the purpose of the plastic mast tip. It seems far fetched that you could hit wires with the sail reefed since the most likely place would be in a parking lot and you wouldn't have the sail up at that point. Another interesting thing is that shortening the metal mast actually reduced the protection you would have from lightning. Hobie made that clear in the information I received about the retrofit. It reduced the "cone of protection". I researched lightning a little and found one quote that "the only thing more dangerous than being on the water with a boat with a mast was being on a boat without a mast".

Where are you located?

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Howard

Reef points are the grommeted holes in the sail, in the second blue panel from the bottom. They facilitate reducing sail area when it's very windy, by allowing you to partially lower the sail and securing the loose sail about the boom.

95% of the time, you won't need them. Consequently, they haven't been on Hobie 16s since the mid-'80s.

The sails look OK - at least not sun damaged. As a beginner, they should serve you well - there is nothing you can do to make them any better. Sails (like people) get old. New sails would cost more than what you're paying for the boat/trailer.

There are some experts in that part of the world, but it's kind of short notice.

I am located in Delaware. Thee boat I'm interested in is neasr Baltimore and Annapolis.

Thanks for the insight.

As for the hulls appearing to be painted, they are painted. The seller confirmed this. But they were just painted because he hated the red the hulls were before.

Hmmmmm. that wont look pretty after a couple years of the white paint being scraped off in misc sections as you use the boat ( unless he used some serious expensive topside/bottom side yacht paint)!
If you buy the boat, consider getting off the white paint ( if it turns into an issue ) and just polish up that red gelcoat ( 70's?? ) I bet it would look GREAT. Don't sweat the sails and cosmetics to much on your first boat, just make sure everything is there, the rigging is safe and the hulls are not crunchy and wavey if you press about 20lb with your palms anywhere on the hulls. If you hear and feel popping and cracking under your hands - especially forward of the front cross bar - that's where the boat's big stress point is.

That area can be reinforced and stiffened pretty easily, cheaply and effectively if you plan on sailing the boat mostly in lakes, but that's a whole other topic

I stand on my value @ $900 - $1000 for an older, painted, H16, no hiking straps, non oem tramp, no trap rigging with a similar vintage galvanized " being worked on " trailer. If there are other WOW factors included that aren't in the pics or description that you find out as you're looking over the boat than an asking price of $1200 could be a great deal. Spare sails? Beach Wheels? Hotstick? EPO Rudders? Harnesses?

Every 80's Hobie 16 I've bought needed $300 - $500 in upgrades and repairs between the boat and trailer to make it ready to tow 500 miles to a regatta, smile ear to ear and sheet in the mainsail hard with no worries!

PS. Perhaps the red hulls was from a previous paint job?? White > Red > Back to white ??

_________________
Tim Grover

Memphis, TN fleet 134
Hobie 20! G-Cat5.0 and 2 Hobie 14's
Photobucket now wants $100 to post pics on forums......... pass.

Red hulls?

With the exception of a few made recently in Australia, red hulls haven't been made since the 70's.

Even orange hulls were discontinued in the early '80s. That boat is getting older by the minute.

Problem with red/orange hulls is that the red pigment is not UV stable and fades badly in the sunlight.

Just asked the seller about the red. The owner before him made the (poor) choice to paint the hulls red. The current owner also says he reinforced the bottom of the hulls not because something was wrong with them, but his friends boat had suffered on the bottems and the seller did not want the same for his boat.

I see "RED" flags all over now...... all the layers of various paint and altering the boat physically and cosmeticaly is adding a lot of weight to the boat and suspicion..... why would someone fix something that isn't broken? On a rumor?? No option now..... you have to take a seasoned cat sailor with you to peel back the layers of the onion to inform you of the pro's ands cons..

_________________
Tim Grover

Memphis, TN fleet 134
Hobie 20! G-Cat5.0 and 2 Hobie 14's
Photobucket now wants $100 to post pics on forums......... pass.