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 Post subject: H16 Tramp Lacing
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:41 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Western Canada
I'm finally going to treat my 1980 H16 to a brand new tramp. While looking thru the Hobie Cat accessory catalogue, I find a tramp lacing kit made from a shock cord. Has anyone used this instead of the standard lacing rope, and is there any advantage to using it? Also, has anyone used the Tentrec Tramp Clamp? Again, is there any advantage to using this? Thanks!

Teejay


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:16 am
Posts: 62
I just received the shock cord lacing kit from Murrays but haven't installed it yet. From what I understand, it holds tension better (whereas line requires tightening). The downside is that the shock cord doesn't hold up as long as rope. I was told to expect a couple seasons out of the shock cord.

G


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 Post subject: Bungee lacing
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:52 pm
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Location: Memphis, TN
I just installed a one piece tramp on my hobie. I opted to lace with the bungee cord. It works great, helps keep an even tension on the tramp, therefore making it more rigid. The only downside I have found, wear gloves when you lace it. The streching of the cord pinches your palm, so after time, it wears your hands out!

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1989 Hobie 18-SE with SX wings.
Harken 7:1, Plum Crazy sail scheme.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:25 pm 
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What size shock cord does the kit use?


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 Post subject: Shock cord size?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 8893
Location: Oceanside, California
The Hobie Cat kit uses 3/8" shock cord.

Easier to tighten and stays tight. Yes, line lasts much longer. There is a thread about tightening a tramp that applies... The discussion is about line vs. bunjee and included a trick we use when rigging boats for big events.

http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=831

>>A trick for trampoline tensioning on 14s and 16s...

Use a mainsheet block, tackle and an extra length of line. Wrap the system around the tramp area and side bars. Tension to pull the side bars in as they would be when the tramp is tight. Tension the tramp (takes less effort), then release the mainsheet system.<<

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Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:32 pm
Posts: 198
Location: West Texas
When I was visiting Ocean Springs Yacht Club in (May? June?) I knew I'd be re-lacing my tramp soon (mainly because the 32 year old cord had just broken the day before) so I took the following pictures of Jim Gates' H16. Pay attention especially to the last pic, which shows how you can tie it so that the tramp doesn't pull out of the rails. :)

Image

Image

Image

Note: I didn't use Matt's neat trick (above) when I re-laced my tramp, mainly because (a) I only expect my 32-year-old tramp to last maybe one or two more seasons so I just got cheap $4 nylon Wal-Mart rope; and (b) I read the trick after I relaced my tramp. So... looking forward to trying it out with a new tramp mebbe next year. =)~


Warm regards,

Jim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4576
Location: Detroit, MI
Jim - you need to see a newer boat to see all the subtle improvements made over the years. :D

Since the early '80's, the rear tramp lacing starts from a hole in the corner casting - that helps keeps the tramp from pulling out of the sidebars. The aftermarket tramp in the photo seems to have problems with its boltrope (too small). It's pulling out even at the front where I've never had problem with the tramp pulling out.

There's also an aftermarket product made by Tren-Tec called "Tramp Clamps" - little plastic shims that get inserted near the edges of the tramp that effectively narrow the slot in the sidebars and keep the bolt rope from pulling through. I've used them for years, although I haven't had to on my current 16 (only six years old). They work great and last forever.

The line used in the photo (3 strand) is tough to lace with because of the texture. You want to use a smooth surfaced line (double braid) that will slide smoothly over the grommets. I recycle my Aussie jib halyard (75' of 4 mm Spectra core / Dacron cover) into tramp lacings. It's like wire - no stretch and it's very light.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:32 pm
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Location: West Texas
My '72 boat has a hole in the corner casting (that I'm not using because my new rope is too thick. I guess I coulda drilled it out a bit.) ...so I don't necessarily think it's an '80s thing, but I'll definately look into the tramp clamps. Where do you get them?

Also - more info on the Aussie jib halyard please. :) How does that work?

Jim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:10 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
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Location: Detroit, MI
Murrays (http://www.murrays.com) has both:

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:28 am 
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Location: Detroit, MI
I can't get the forum to display the image of the Aussie Halyard - if you go to the Murray's site, click on Catamaran Accessories, then on page 30 of the catalog, it'll have info on the system. It basically replaces the wire jib halyard / block system with a line that has the purchase at the head of the sail instead of at the base of the mast.

I made my own system using Harken blocks and New England Ropes Spect-Set line (which is now discontinued). The line is so stiff, it'll hold a shape that you bend it to.

I just replaced the line in the system with Gottifredi Maffioli Swiftcord - a single braid Dyneema line with a non-slip tracer (Dyneema tends to pull through cleats and doesn't hold knots very well.) Ultimately, a Dyneema tramp lacing might be better due to its slippery nature and ultra high strength / no stretch characteristics. 4 mm Swiftcord runs about $0.38 a foot.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:32 pm
Posts: 198
Location: West Texas
Okay so I'm looking at the image on page 30... So.... both "ends" of the pigtail attach to the head of the jib? (And the one without the block just bends I suppose?) So then you pull down on that to raise the jib? Do you use the pulley on the mast at all anymore then or what?

Do you have a camera? I want to see detailed pictures. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:38 am 
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Location: Detroit, MI
I'll take some photos - but you'll have to wait until Monday :( The boat's packed up for a regatta this weekend & I won't have Internet access until I get home late Sunday night.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:08 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:39 am
Posts: 471
Location: Finger Lakes, NY
MMM Ok, I don't know how we got from trampolines to halyards but, back to the tramp...Secrets that I learned from top competitive racers in my day. This is for H-16 owners only. Hope it helps.

FIRST: DO NOT USE shockcord for the Tramp on a 16. Your best performance is realized when the entire boat responds as a SINGLE unit. On a 16 the only thing that makes the boat a single unit is a TIGHT TRAMP (not the same as my drunk girlfriend :shock: ) Use the largest diameter, low stretch, line that you can get. At least 3/8, but no larger than 1/2 is good. Halyard line that is non-absorbent is a great choice. (A dry-boat is a fast boat and soaking wet lacing weighs a lot more than you would imagine)
(See http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... sblid=ln13 for some FANTASTIC closeout pricing on STA-set X Lite Spectra Braid )

Why tight: The 16 tramp floats above the boat on stanchions where other models have the cross bars connected DIRECTLY to the decks. On the 16, the tramp is a big, floating, unstable square that gets it's stability from the tramp. (A 2 piece tramp divided corner to corner, with diagonal lacing would be awesome)

Recommended upgrade: install DOUBLE the number of grommets down the center. A canvas shop can do it for you. Lace it up criss-cross, just like your sneakers (that is if you wear pre-velcro sneakers that don't look like fairy-boots :roll: ) If you double the grommets you will need two 2O foot lines, if you don't, you will only need one. Always buy about 3-4 feet more line than you think you will need.

How to get a tight tramp: (I was going to say "booze and cigarettes", but I won't :oops: ) This is easy. Really. You will need two Vise-Grips (real Vise Grips, not the cheap things from the dollar store made in China :shock:) . You will also need a friend to help (and beer to make you strong :lol: )

1) Tie off your line, thread it through the first TWO grommets.

2) PULL the long end back towards the first grommet. You can get great leverage by putting a foot up on the cross bar (when you do the back lacing) or side bar (when you do the center lacing) and leaning back.

3) Keep pulling-pressure on the line and have your friend clamp a vise grip on your side of the grommet. NOTE: Clamp it tight- push down so that the jaws are RIGHT NEXT to the grommet so that the line stays tight and doesn't slip back.

4) Leave Vise-Grip #1 clamped while you thread the line through the next TWO grommets.

5) Pull tight again and put the second Vise Grip on the line, next to the new grommet as before.

6) Now that the second grip is on, You may now release the first Vise Grip. Thread through the next two grommets, pull, clamp, release last clamp and continue the process.

7) Stop for beer as necessary.

Testing for tightness: With the boat resting on the ground or trailer, lift one hull at the bow, the OTHER hull should lift simultaneously with very little "play". If you lift one hull more than an inch before the other hull lifts, it is not tight enough. Get more beer. :lol:

READ THIS ->IMPORTANT: Too tight will rip grommets out but You should see the material give as you see in the photos posted by JaimeZXv.2. If I am not mistaken the tramp in that picture is mesh-tramp with reinforced edges. A grown person can pull the line as tight as needed without any other mechanical leverage (WEAR GLOVES!!).

Keep your diapers on and your weight aft- at the first sign of storm we sail!!


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 Post subject: Carefull - Safety issue!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:45 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
Carefull - Safety issue!

We see in the photos that the trampoline sidebar is installed with the track-opening aft. This is a possible danger. Fingers can easily get stuck in the track opening...

Hobie Cat recommends that the track opening is always forward where it is is filled by the tramp cord.

We understand the logic of having the opening aft, to keep the tramp in the slot up forward. Best to install the tramp and slide all the way forward where it can be held by a short closed section of the track. To keep it there, tighten the center lacing for a few grommets before tensioning the tramp to the aft. Complete the center lace first and finish with the aft.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: definitely
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:39 am
Posts: 471
Location: Finger Lakes, NY
What mmiler said


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