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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:52 pm 
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Location: Clinton Lake, KS
I think I found my solution here.

My problems are I always have trap wires tangled up, and I break cord pretty often pitchpoling and dragging myself along behind the boat. I like the idea of using the through tramp grommets, but there simply isn't enough cord in the stock system... and the double system sold by Hobie only corrects part of the problem....

So... Why not run each section of shock cord individually? Through the grommet in the tramp, to a microblock (old jib sheet blocks) at the corner casting and then to the casting on the same side... (or to the other side... whatever...) Skippers shock cord running aft first.. crew line headed for the bow first.

This keeps the system for one side entirely on the same side of the boat..

Keeps the blocks off the rails/out of the way of shockcord travel... and no drilling required to tie them up near the castings.. (if you didn't want to use the through tramp grommets a low friction ring like above could be tied to the Shroud and location could be adjustable... )

Nearly (not quite) doubles the amount of cord.. But leaves you carrying more shock cord in total than the hobie system.

While still requiring four blocks the shock cord on each usage is turning through the grommet and one block instead of the grommet and two blocks..

Should you break shock cord you only lose one trapeze handle on one side of the boat.




I'll get it built Thursday night and post some pictures. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:41 pm 
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ronholm wrote:
...Should you break shock cord you only lose one trapeze handle on one side of the boat.


That is an advantage. Overall, I think the fact that the shock cord serves double duty in the Hobie TRRS is a benefit, as you need a lot of shock cord to do it right so you might as well use it all, all the time. But you're right, if you break one you lose two traps (at least until you repair it).

A really clean system would be some kind of retractable spool, but I suppose there aren't any that are both robust and inexpensive. Maybe there's a good solution involving a strong magnet on each end of a fairly short (like the stock single-run) shock cord. Go flying, nothing breaks, and you just snap the magnet back onto the trap when you recover.

Until then, I think the best solution is a homemade version of the Hobie TRRS using better blocks and the correct (longer) length of cord. I'm still bummed that Hobie missed the mark so badly on that one.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:14 pm 
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I installed some grommets in the tramp for the trapeze system and found out that the tramp got small real fast.And the trapeze system was always in my face........too cluttered.

I like Dave Bell's setup the best. Thanks for sharing Dave...... :)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:58 pm 
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AntonLargiader wrote:
ronholm wrote:
...Should you break shock cord you only lose one trapeze handle on one side of the boat.


That is an advantage. Overall, I think the fact that the shock cord serves double duty in the Hobie TRRS is a benefit, as you need a lot of shock cord to do it right so you might as well use it all, all the time. But you're right, if you break one you lose two traps (at least until you repair it).

A really clean system would be some kind of retractable spool, but I suppose there aren't any that are both robust and inexpensive. Maybe there's a good solution involving a strong magnet on each end of a fairly short (like the stock single-run) shock cord. Go flying, nothing breaks, and you just snap the magnet back onto the trap when you recover.



I agree it seems to make sense to use all of the shock cord... ect.. I just think the benefits of keeping it tidy added with having failures one at a time marginally outweigh a bit carrying more cord.. When righting the boat with broken trap wires.. They are all over the place.... and then if one line did break I would have everything on board to set up "standard" without returning to shore for repairs.. Or at least enough to make something work..

I will also add using two separate pieces of Shockcord for the traveler works MUCH better.. Probably the single best improvement made to my boat last year... The tension on the traveler is more consistent and adjustable throughout the range. With the travelers connected I never could really get it dialed in where they would both return easily while still being able to have both cars traveled outboard... giving each car nearly twice as much cord in the inboard position and tension that wasn't relative to the other car should be the only way the boats are setup and sold.. Granted the Trapeze setup won't be experiencing the same movement.. in travel.. But still.....

And as far as a magnet.. I have thought about that a quite a bit.. My last effort at something along those lines was tying a figure of eight in the end of the trap line.. and then tightening the loop up on the shock cord with hog rings to where it looked about right.. Depending on the exact angle this should pop out before breaking the line. In theory..

I think the best solution would be a souped up version of those little clips they put on whistle/sunglass necklaces so you can't choke yourself. I wouldn't even know where to look for something like that..


Ordering solcore now 8) Just trying to figure out if I want 3/16 or 1/4.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:53 pm 
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AntonLargiader wrote:
Maybe there's a good solution involving a strong magnet on each end of a fairly short (like the stock single-run) shock cord. Go flying, nothing breaks, and you just snap the magnet back onto the trap when you recover.
.



Calf ropers honda?

Breakaway dog collar?

http://www.amazon.com/Type-III-Paracord ... B00C6BMSLK


Last edited by ronholm on Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:56 pm 
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ronholm wrote:

I think the best solution would be a souped up version of those little clips they put on whistle/sunglass necklaces so you can't choke yourself. I wouldn't even know where to look for something like that..



hmm I like your thinking...found these. Not sure how you would attach them so you dont loose them. Cheap enough I may get a few and mess around a bit.

http://usaknifemaker.com/ferro-rods-sur ... kaway.html
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Breakaway-Safet ... 27d07544ad

I have broken a couple clips so far during pitch poles. Always been able to rig a knot in the end of the bungee and get sailing again on the water. But some type of cheap re-useable breakaway setup would be awesome.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:54 pm 
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Ron I recently upgraded by trap return system and posted pics in the same thread that David Bell and Zach posted pictured setups on.
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=47328

This resolved my setup breaking issue had during pitch pole/cartwheel and is nice and tidy underneath my tramp.

I also don't use the knot to tie my traps to the trap return system and simply use large (RF89) stainless steel sister clips. These are very easy to attached and super easy to clip/unclip.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:19 am 
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hobiesrock wrote:
ronholm wrote:

I think the best solution would be a souped up version of those little clips they put on whistle/sunglass necklaces so you can't choke yourself. I wouldn't even know where to look for something like that..



hmm I like your thinking...found these. Not sure how you would attach them so you dont loose them. Cheap enough I may get a few and mess around a bit.

http://usaknifemaker.com/ferro-rods-sur ... kaway.html
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Breakaway-Safet ... 27d07544ad

I have broken a couple clips so far during pitch poles. Always been able to rig a knot in the end of the bungee and get sailing again on the water. But some type of cheap re-useable breakaway setup would be awesome.



I ordered some of those paracord breakaway clips last night.. Most places seem to suggest they breakaway near 20lbs of force.. I think that might really be close but just on the 'light' side... and I don't expect they were designed to operate with a constant pull...

I think I am misunderstanding.. Are you using these?


That carabiner if it were designed for 1/4 line would be perfect.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:32 pm 
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Nope not using them....yet.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:25 pm 
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My daughter is very happy with the paracord clips... She is already making stuff for her friends.. The release pressure is just to a little to light, but the concept is perfect.. I might stop in a couple craft stores tomorrow.. I like the idea the best...

Also.. a friend of mine suggested sewing up a custom version of something like a DMM ripstop..

Matt.. I may just order some of those Ronstan sister clips.. The RF536 shows a breaking load of 150lbs... I may just have to load one up break it to see where and how it might break.. then maybe touch them with a grinder if it doesn't give soon enough...

Or have you found they give soon enough before the cord.. Or you don't know because the extra cord didn't reach the point of breaking anything?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:45 am 
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Crazy magnets... $8 gets you something like 30 pounds of pull in a 3/4" diameter: http://www.kjmagnetics.com/

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:14 pm 
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Well... I ended up basically back at the hobie system... With the skippers shock cord ran through the grommet I didn't find any real crunch for space on the tramp.. The problem was that if the skipper was out and and the crew wasn't, the skippers shock cord was in the way.. Of course with the same problem with the Crew coming in and the skipper still out...

What I did for blocks for the shockcord is just used old jib blocks.. But instead of screwing or drilling anything in the side rails of the boat I simply tied a loop with a stopper knot through what would be the skippers shock cord grommet. It was supposed to be a temporary solution until I gathered the bits to make the shock cord setup individual on each side, but works so well I just might leave it.. Without having the blocks screwed to the rails they stay up and out of the way very nicely and caused no problems thus far..

And since I am using 3/16 Solcord for shock cord.. I don't think you could stretch the cord far enough to break it with the more than doubled amount of cord under the boat.. I am nearly certain you could get perpendicular to mast and still be fine :lol:


For the connection of shock cord to trapeze line.. I spliced an eye in some amsteel blue.. Stuck that through a stopper ball, and then to a little hook.. Found them locally... The stopper ball just slides over for a perfect fit, and it hangs up on nothing.. (jam cleat on crews line doesn't work great..)

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