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 Post subject: HC 17 trim arrangement
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:12 pm 
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Site Rank - Deck Hand

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:17 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Winter is almost over (only 4 months left!)

Therefore I'm getting ready for dress up my Hobie Cat 17 and get ready for the season.

Does anyone want to share their experience/solution of how they have arranged the control of:
- mast rotation
- Cunningham
so these can be handled while sailling my HC 17 ?

Preferable with photos

(copy/paste from my message on www.catsailor.com, but I just found this forum right now, and it is for sure much more relevant!)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4613
Location: Detroit, MI
I've never seen anybody run anything but the stock mast rotation control. Usually the only thing that gets changed is the cleat (from plastic to aluminum).

Most of the racers run the downhaul (cunningham) as a 6:1, adjustable from the trapeze:

Image

Arrow 1 points to the cleat - there's one on each side of the mast. Harken part #291 (mounted "upside down")

Arrow 2 points to the Harken Triple Micro block (#228) attached to the tack of the sail.

Arrow 3 points to the Harken Double Micro block (#226) attached to the vertex (below where the boom attaches to the mast).

The loose ends of the downhaul are led out to the wings and tied off at the outer gap in the wing tramp. Or you can tie them to the trapeze handle.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:39 am
Posts: 471
Location: Finger Lakes, NY
Being a sailor often means that you love to make things work, and you buy things to make things work, and you invent things to make other things work. Being a guy means also that more stuff is good and too much stuff is better. It's a guy thing unh unh unh yeah. :lol:

But I really have to question whether these fine trim arrangements are practical and useful from out on the wing or is it just one more thing to try and attend to? I think that attention to your course, other boats (tactics), the wind, your hull trim (moving weight forward or aft) and controlling the main to the best of your ability is enough to get you ahead. In other words, just doing all the things it takes to sail well will yield more results than all this fine trim - especially when you are out on the wing in a hard blow (that's the only time you are out on the wing come to think of it) :?

Not to say if you want to spend the money and do all the stuff to not do it. Heck yeah! 8)

To paraphrase Ricardo Montalban: It is better to look good than it is to sail good- and we look marvelous!! :wink:

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The fact that this windy world is largely covered in water obviously means that man was meant to sail.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:17 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
widerisbetter: You're right.

Stay focused on the things that matters give more than some fine ajustment.

My thoughts came up after have tried sailing a Tiger, where the fine tuning during the race was essential.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4613
Location: Detroit, MI
On a racing 17, it is critical to have the downhaul led out to the wing - not that you play it all the time, though.

In a blow, you want the downhaul as tight as you can get it. When you're rounding the leeward mark, there are twelve steps you need to attend to:

1 - Centerboard down (leeward)
2 - Centerboard down (windward)
3 - Rudder down (windward)
4 - Outhaul to upwind setting
5 - Mast Rotation to upwind setting
6 - Downhaul tight
7 - Main Traveller to upwind setting
8 - Get out on the wing (just before your rounding)
9 - Mainsheet to rough upwind setting
10 - Trapeze
11 - Mainsheet all the way in
12 - Downhaul down tight as you can get it

Most of the time, you can't get the downhaul all the way down until the main is sheeted all the way in. Also, by having it led out to the wing, you can use your legs to pull it all the way down.

On a Tiger, the crew plays the downhaul to de-power the main in gusts. When a gust hits and the hull starts to fly, the crew cranks down on the downhaul, opening up the leech of the main and spilling some of the power.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:55 pm
Posts: 221
Location: Issaquah, WA
:lol:
Agree with Matt. Downhaul adjust from the wing is necessary. In heavy wind, there is no way to go back in and adjust without losing ground.

Calebl


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:28 pm
Posts: 14
Ditto to Matt & Caleb'c comments. You need to shift the 17 through all the gears to go fast and once out on the wing in blow you do not want to come in off the wire.

Sail fast, Tom G


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:28 am
Posts: 35
My parents learned real quick DO NOT mess with the mast rotation. My dad made it rotate more and when they got out on trap in a blow the mast broke sending them for a swim.

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"I'm just tryin' to keep everything in balance, Woodrow. You do more work than you got to, so it's my obligation to do less." Augustus 'Gus' McCrae


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:15 am
Posts: 8
Location: Luleå, Northen Sweden
Hi!
Do you have any picture or drawing on how to adjust the downhaul from the wings. On my HC17, it is only adjustable from one side. How have you arranged this? More blocks?

BR Hans


MBounds wrote:
I've never seen anybody run anything but the stock mast rotation control. Usually the only thing that gets changed is the cleat (from plastic to aluminum).

Most of the racers run the downhaul (cunningham) as a 6:1, adjustable from the trapeze:

Image

Arrow 1 points to the cleat - there's one on each side of the mast. Harken part #291 (mounted "upside down")

Arrow 2 points to the Harken Triple Micro block (#228) attached to the tack of the sail.

Arrow 3 points to the Harken Double Micro block (#226) attached to the vertex (below where the boom attaches to the mast).

The loose ends of the downhaul are led out to the wings and tied off at the outer gap in the wing tramp. Or you can tie them to the trapeze handle.

_________________
Sails a 1987 HC 17 with new main and jib from 2006


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4613
Location: Detroit, MI
Here's the picture that goes with that description:
Image

The short answer is yes - you have to add the swivel cleats to each side of the mast to control the downhaul from the wings.


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 Post subject: Downhaul
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:36 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 539
Location: League City, TX
Hans:

I would get the yellow 8 to 1 one here. They work real good. I have one almost like it and love it.

http://www.murrays.com/archive/26.pdf

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
"Stress Free" #007


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 Post subject: Re: Downhaul
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:15 am
Posts: 8
Location: Luleå, Northen Sweden
Doug!
Thanks for the tip. I will definitely go for that kind of solution. Do you then have a long rope out to the wings so that you can adjust this when you are trapezing or ? Do you fasten the rope in any way to the wing?
BR Hans

DougHobie17 wrote:
Hans:

I would get the yellow 8 to 1 one here. They work real good. I have one almost like it and love it.

http://www.murrays.com/archive/26.pdf

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
"Stress Free" #007

_________________
Sails a 1987 HC 17 with new main and jib from 2006


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 Post subject: To trap wires
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 539
Location: League City, TX
Hans:

Yes I have line long enough to reach the wings. I tie them to the trap wire snap hooks. With the swivel cleats you can pull them either while setting on wings or on the trapeze.

Doug


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4613
Location: Detroit, MI
An 8:1 downhaul is not class legal and you may end up pulling the halyard hook off the mast and / or the tack grommet out of the sail.

6:1 is plenty strong enough.

If you've got the European version of the mast (solid aluminum), then it should handle the additional load of an 8:1. If that's the way you want to go, have your sailmaker reinforce the tack.


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