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 Post subject: Centerboard Handles
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:16 pm
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Location: Magna, Utah
So in getting this H17 going I am going to need to replace the lines and handles for the centerboard. I am curious as to what others have used for alternative handle options that they like over the general lawnmower style handles.

Also has anyone ever rigged a shock cord to hold the line back toward the stern to facilitate keeping the knots where they go?

How often do these fail, fall out or get lost? I ask because the boat I have was missing a centerboard and spring and the metal hinge piece was missing from the hull.


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 Post subject: Re: Centerboard Handles
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:19 am 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
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Location: Jersey Shore
I use plastic ball stops, two on each side. One acts as the stop for the daggerboard in the fully down position, and then the other one is located about 6" above the first one to act as a handle. I also use one continuous line to control both daggerboards. This allows me to lower the daggerboard on the leeward side of the boat without actually having to go over to that side (however I still have to go to leeward to pull the board up).

I've never had any issue with the knots popping out of the cleat, so I don't think a bungee would be necessary. However, it's very important to keep an eye on the condition of the line. The cleat will eventually wear out the line and if the line breaks, you'll lose both the board and spring. You also want to make sure the "hook" on the centerboard that engages the pin in the hull is in good condition. The fiberglass reinforcement in the hook is minimal, and if it fails, the board will drop out of the hull and you'll lose the spring.

sm


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 Post subject: Re: Centerboard Handles
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:35 pm
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Location: Lake Champlain, Vermont
Similar except I use two lines, not one continuous. The only time I've had the knot "come out of the slot" is when pulling the boat up on shore or wood or something and the pressure from below pushes the board up slightly, removing the tension on the line. They are not completely flush with the bottom hull when raised. I guess you can get them flush, but I haven't spent the time.

_________________
H18, H17 & Various motor boats


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 Post subject: Re: Centerboard Handles
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:59 am 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
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Location: Jersey Shore
It's difficult to get the boards to be completely flush with the bottom of the hull because as the knots in the line settle, the board will creep down.

You really want to use beach wheels on the 17 and try to avoid dragging it on sand, pebbles, etc. as much as possible because you will wear away the leading edge of the board as it drags along the beach. Also, sand and grit can easily get up inside the daggerboard trunk and cause the board to get stuck.

The centerboard system on the 17 has some unique benefits, but it also has some drawbacks.

sm


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 Post subject: Re: Centerboard Handles
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:36 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
The only time I use bungees to hold the handle back is when trailering, so road bumps won't accidently lower the boards. Replacement handles can come from many sources, lawn mower or outboard motor replacement parts, Hobie, etc. I use 2 figure-8 knots per board (Top knot for all the way down 13" - 14" and the other half way ~6.5") The top knot fits into a ball bungee ball so it is an absolute stop (I previously broke the hook off and lost a spring on my port board when a non-balled top knot slipped pass the stop, the board went down too far (~16") and the side pressure on the unsupported board snapped off the hook). I was able to repair the board and plunked down $50.00 for a new spring. Lesson learned.


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 Post subject: Re: Centerboard Handles
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:43 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:52 pm
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I've used lawnmower handles - cheap, easy to get and not too bulky. But I have fumbled a bit with gloves on because maybe my handles are just a bit too compact.
Bungee balls make good stops, especially if you can get a red and a green one...


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 Post subject: Re: Centerboard Handles
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:16 pm
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Location: Magna, Utah
So something like this would be overkill
http://www.lowes.com/pd_141612-60858-110_4294857393+5003695_4294937087_?productId=1135001&Ns=p_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl_5%2B10_4294857393%2B5003695_4294937087_%3Fpage%3D2%26Ns%3Dp_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=$5%20-%20$10

I actually was considering the dual plastic ball thing the other day when looking at it. I had not really considered running a single line for both sides though but I can see how that could be helpful a times.


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 Post subject: Re: Centerboard Handles
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4623
Location: Detroit, MI
The problem with the "lawnmower" style handles (and especially the one in the above link) is that the mainsheet will inevitably get caught on it - on the leeward side when you're on the trapeze. It makes it really hard to work the sheet / traveler from the wire. The balls are OK, but even they can snag the sheet.

I use a 1/8" thick plastic washer about 1" in diameter with a stainless washer to help spread out the load from the stopper knot. I use a 3-piece line - the two original lines with a third line to connect them (tied together with sheet bend knots). The knots are large enough to keep from going down the hole, so even if the washers fail.


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 Post subject: Re: Centerboard Handles
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:59 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:52 pm
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Well I can't let that go past me to the keeper... :(

My lawnmower handles have yet to catch the main sheet - I control my ropes. Still I don't mind the suggestion by MBounds - it's just that lawnmower handles are better, they are really simple, cheap, contain no metal parts, and look like they have a good reason to be there...which they do :D


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 Post subject: Re: Centerboard Handles
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
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Location: Detroit, MI
gmhendo wrote:
- it's just that lawnmower handles are better, they are really simple, cheap, contain no metal parts, and look like they have a good reason to be there...which they do :D
Actually, they have a metal washer inside to prevent the knot from pulling through.

Another problem with the lawnmower handles is that the "neck" can fit down the hole, but it's a tight fit - most of the time the handle stops at the base of the neck.

This effectively removes about 1" to 1 1/2" of centerboard travel for racers since the rule on the control length is "12-1/2 in. (31.75 cm), measured from the top of the deck to the point of handle that cannot fit in the hole, in the fully up position."

My system works for me, your mileage may vary.


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 Post subject: Re: Centerboard Handles
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:35 am 
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Location: Magna, Utah
srm wrote:
I use plastic ball stops, two on each side. One acts as the stop for the daggerboard in the fully down position, and then the other one is located about 6" above the first one to act as a handle. I also use one continuous line to control both daggerboards. This allows me to lower the daggerboard on the leeward side of the boat without actually having to go over to that side (however I still have to go to leeward to pull the board up).

I've never had any issue with the knots popping out of the cleat, so I don't think a bungee would be necessary. However, it's very important to keep an eye on the condition of the line. The cleat will eventually wear out the line and if the line breaks, you'll lose both the board and spring. You also want to make sure the "hook" on the centerboard that engages the pin in the hull is in good condition. The fiberglass reinforcement in the hook is minimal, and if it fails, the board will drop out of the hull and you'll lose the spring.

sm



Do you know what the total length of your continuous line is? Whether I do continuous or regular I like your dual ball idea the best so far. Besides I have a bunch of those little red bungees from Walmart that need to be replaced as they have had too much sun. Plus they are cheap and that is always good.


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 Post subject: Re: Centerboard Handles
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 106
MBounds you got me on the internal metal - 'had no idea about that, I will check mine. My handle is actually on a short tail, the actual stop is a ball


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 Post subject: Re: Centerboard Handles
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:36 pm
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Location: Tri-Cities, WA
The continious line sounds intriguing, but with the Sport I already have 3 continious lines (Jib & main sheets, and Jib travler) and 2 lines for the down haul. The deck would get a bot cluttered. Also, I find it hard to see the situation where I will need to lower the leeward board from the wing, so I think I will stay with the handles. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Centerboard Handles
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:06 am 
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Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:25 am
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Location: Jersey Shore
fastcat wrote:
I find it hard to see the situation where I will need to lower the leeward board from the wing, so I think I will stay with the handles.


During a race, at the leeward mark rounding you don't need to go to the leeward side of the boat to put the board down, you can lower it from your normal sailing position. Also, if you happen to forget to put the board down upwind, you can easily pop it down without having to go to the low side.

If you don't race, there's really no reason for the continuous line.

sm


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 Post subject: Re: Centerboard Handles
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:36 pm
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Location: Tri-Cities, WA
makes sense, I can see where it would be a benefit for the leeward mark.
Racing question: For racing do you tend to go all or nothing on the boards or do you use a half way setting also? ( I use a midway stop on my boards on reaches at times.


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