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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:39 am
Posts: 471
Location: Finger Lakes, NY
15 - 20 knot winds, 2 - 3 foot seas, Seneca Lake this morning.
290 lb crew load.
Twisted nylon rudder pins right off, causing emergency landing steering by using the sail. Photos to follow. We just replaced pins and the wind is still screaming out there - gotta go sail.

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The fact that this windy world is largely covered in water obviously means that man was meant to sail.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:19 pm
Posts: 54
Wider,
My understanding is that the nylon pins are designed for beach launching and landing conditions where it might be better to have the pin break away in case your rudders drop onto the bottom. Better than damaging your transoms! Aluminum is the default pin and stainless is a somewhat more durable upgrade.
Todd Craig
www.inland-sailing.com


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 Post subject: ?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:38 pm 
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Location: Finger Lakes, NY
Thank you Todd but these twisted off while sailing in conditions that were almost, not quite, as stressful as ocean sailing. I don't see the advantage of a pin designed to protect your transom but that fails while sailing.
I bought them for the way fit and take the slop out of the rudders.
As for stainless - the best set-up I have ever seen was a custom made stainless, one piece, gudgeon with a stainless pin, in heavy duty ocean use. There were some landings that would have made you cringe. Even through hundreds of landings and launchings, those never failed. I never worried about the transom. That particular '76 is still in action after a Worrell 1000 and years of service.
I still think the nylon is a bad idea - or am I missing something...
peace out

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:41 am 
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I have no idea what the failure rate of the nylon pins is in general. I do know that they are designed to fail more easily than the other two types. We don't even stock them in our shop and I make sure anyone requesting them knows that they were designed for a specific purpose. On my Miracle 20, I didn't even use the Hobie Pins. I used 4 long stainless steel clevis pins with rings. It was more of a pain to install the rudders, but I didn't have to worry about bent or broken pins. I also bonded in aluminum backing plates inside the transom. The 20 is not a boat you'd want to do a hard beach landing in anyway.
Maybe Matt Miller has more to say on the subject of nylon pins. I certainly defer to Matt on all technical matters.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:51 am 
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Location: Finger Lakes, NY
To be fair - we really were stressing the entire system with a combined weight of almost 300 lbs holding steady on a tight reach when the pin twisted off above and below the gudgeons. The bottom of the rudder casting swung up, inwards, free but the top of the casting jammed firmly against the gunnel in such a way as to make the starboard rudder inoperable.

Talk about weather helm!! :shock:

Thank goodness it jammed in a straight ahead position AND we were headed back at the time from about a mile out. We could have ended up sailing 25 miles in a straight line to Geneva or Watkins Glen! I am also thankful that my kid, who is just learning to sail was not on his own. This was good training under pressure on how to steer by positioning the sail.

With the old almuminum pins back in place and a week of fantastic wind we had a great time from that point forward. Wee hah!

I promised photos, but haven't had time to post them yet.

Happy sails,
-Stephen

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The fact that this windy world is largely covered in water obviously means that man was meant to sail.


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 Post subject: Nylon?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
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Location: Oceanside, California
Unless you are concerned with damaging the transom due to surf launching issues... use stainless or aluminium pins.

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Thanks matt
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:41 am 
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Location: Finger Lakes, NY
Yeah, I'm more concerned about getting home in one piece - even if we did have to land about 1/4 mile from our beach. I keep wondering what I would have done if we were sailing in the north Atlantic headed away from shore and this happened ?!! Would I be writing to you from Spain? :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:36 pm
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Location: Tri-Cities, WA
I replaced my stock alum pins (which had some wear) with stainless steel 3 years ago. The stainless pins still show no wear. 8)


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