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 Post subject: FX-ONE tuning help
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:28 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz
Alright FX-1 gurus,

Since the FX is my personal play boat, I haven't done the 'experiments' on it that I have on other Hobies. Having said that...

I'm having trouble getting good shape out of my main. The upper tells don't fly right when I'm going upwind in less than 12-15 kts. The top of my main is stalling and making it so that I can't point that high until it starts blowing. I've tried every on-deck adjustment with nothing working.

Case Study:
Yesterday on the inside it was 8-10 kts and I had trouble pointing higher than a well sailed 16. I was faster, but not pointing like I feel the boat is capable of. On the outside it was blowing 15-30 and in about the 20 kt range I could smoke just about anything else on the water.

Here's what I think it is, but I'm not sure. My mast is set up pretty straight, I forget the numbers, but it does not have much prebend. I set it up for a heavy crew, me, at 250#'s. I don't think the sail fits the mast well in this configuration. Should I throw the tuning guide out the window and put more prebend in it?

I noticed I was running the 'Heavy' top battens. Should I change to the soft?

Up above 20 kts downwind I feel like the boat would like the power moved aft a bit. I am at max rake with the limiting factor being the forestay length. Has anyone added another forestay adjuster to get more rig rake?

Whacha think?

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 Post subject: Re: FX-ONE tuning help
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:31 pm 
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Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Surf City Catamarans wrote:
On the outside it was blowing 15-30 and in about the 20 kt range I could smoke just about anything else on the water.


Yes, my Getaway is still smoking after you passed near me at the speed of light... Is this covered by the Hobie Waranty :?:

Christophe


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:05 am 
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I still we you a ride crobie!!

Thanks to all the people that called and emailed. I think I have the kinks worked out. A little more prebend and diamond tension oughta do it. The main looks a lot better.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:44 am 
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Location: eureka,california
Jeremy keep tuning that fx-1 i want a rematch for the moss landing challenge.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:49 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz
What's the winner get this year??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:01 am 
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Location: eureka,california
Ummmmmmmmm if i make it too good for you I'll never get parts from you.!
Looser buys dinner? Or the first round at the bar?
Heck im open to suggestions, You get all my play money anyway what more do you want?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:11 am 
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Posts: 467
Quote:
Thanks to all the people that called and emailed.


Why the hang couldn't you post some of them here! Arrgggh.

I must say after looking at a multitude of boats in the 16' to 17' range, the FX was the best choice.

Here are the "supporting points":

1. The F16s boost of wave-piercing bows; the FX had them first.
2. The weight range is higher than the F16s by 50-60 lbs but the weight is still at 300 lbs which is manageable on beach wheels. Heavier was not an option.
3. Hobie has parts information.
4. Hobie has parts information.
5. Hobie has parts information (did I repeat that... must be old age?)
6. The FX is designed for one-up and two-up.
7. The new mast-stepper
8. Daggerboards can be made suitable for shallower locations.

Wondering where all the FXer's are though. (I thought about taking the F16 versus FX argument to F16 forum, but figured without help it would be like the running of the bulls -- me, the runner; them, the bulls. F16 people are a serious lot)

The boat is pricey, yeah. But.

I assume all the FX'ers are so satisfied that they rarely have much to post. When you have found perfection, what is left to say?!

So, post, would ya.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:40 pm 
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Location: Northfield Minnesota
I take it you are the one who bought the boat with the cut off boards? Personally I'd get those either repaired or replaced. You'll be taking a huge performance hit with the shorter boards. Especially in lighter air. You got a hell of a deal! If I would have had any extra cash this year I would have bought that as a 2nd boat and twisted someone else's arm to race it here.

Have you considered doing the Havamega event next November?

It took me a year to really get my FXone dialed in, and its still probably not 100%. I think I did have the prebend in the mast perfect at one point, but then I changed it trying to get it more perfect..... The rake for the spreaders wasn't set according to the tuning guide, so I changed it and haven't been able to get what I want since :oops: I was able to sheet hard, yank the downhaul hard, center the rotator and get the sail board flat when I was sitting on the beach. Fact or fiction, but I was told that is when the luff of the sail and the bend of the mast are a match that is the result you'll get.

One thing I've found with mine is that the sail likes to go up only one way. The hook at the top is a good design in that the sail goes almost entirely to the top of the mast, but it is a massive pain to use. Figure out which side of the mast the hook likes to go up and keep using it. The boat has to be head to wind on the beach in order to get it down.


Any questions just post.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:59 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz
This has some good bits, but the dimensions for diamond tension aren't right for the FX.

Quote:
Basic trim sheet Nacra F17 #1

The information that we provide comes directly from our international Nacra team sailors.

Mast Rake:
Basic setting for now is the upper screw of the rudder spring on the
transom. To measure, you take the bridletankputting as a
reference with your trapeze-line.
You swing the trapeze line to the back and hold it against the
transom of the boat to see where it touches.

Rudder-rake/angle:
You turn the adjustable eye that is screwed into
the lower rudder casting 28 mm out. You measure
between the black rudder case to the center of
this adjustable eye.

Spreader-angle:
With 79 kgs on board, we recommend that you use 55 mm of spreader rake.
With 85 kgs on board, we recommend that you use 50 mm of spreader rake.
With 90 kgs on board, we recommend that you use 45 mm of spreader rake.
With 95+ kgs on board, we recommend that you use 40 mm of spreader rake.
Measure between the mast-track and diamond wires.(you place a sail batten from wire
to wire and measure the distance)If you weigh more or less you can
have more or less spreader-rake.

Diamond tension:
To measure the tension of the diamond wires we use a Loose & Co tension gauge which
you put onto the wire and let go. (The expensive one with the two wheels)
This one gives you the most accurate readings. The number that we work with on this
tension meter is:
34-38, until 15 knots
38-41, from 15 to 25 knots
41-43, from 25 plus

Mast Rotation:
Skipper sitting on the side> mast rotator pointing at middle of daggerboard case.
Skipper hiking almost on trapeze > mast rotator pointing at end of daggerboard case.
Skipper on trapeze > mast rotator pointing in the middle between rear beam and
daggerboard case.
Skipper on trapeze and full cunningham> mast rotator pointing at intersection of
rear beam and outside of the hull.

Daggerboards:
Upwind:
-Skipper sitting on the side> Boards totally down.
- Skipper hiking almost on trapeze > Boards totally down.
- Skipper on trapeze > Boards totally down.
- Skipper on trapeze and full cunningham > Raise the boards 30 cm up above the deck.

Downwind:
-Always raise the leeward board about 60 cm up above the deck and the weather board all the
way leaving 30mm below the hull.
-Mast rotation always fully opened/released and enjoy the ride!

Bob Curry
Team Nacra USA, F17



But someone on this forums is gonna need the manuals found here:

http://www.hobie-cat.net/site_gb/?produits,hobie_fxone

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:20 pm
Posts: 149
Location: Campbell, CA
JJ your point 7 above refers to a "new mast stepper" for the FX1 - what is that?

Good info Jeremy!

Peace,

Dan Peake
Campbell, CA
2003 H17SE
2005 FX1


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:46 pm
Posts: 467
Quote:
It took me a year to really get my FXone dialed in...


Yeah, this is something I fear may take me longer. This boat has everything. Self-tacking jib, spin. It's a lot of stuff.

All the tuning and assembly PDFs I had already picked up off the CA or the Aussie site. So, I am reading and getting oriented. Oriented is the big deal.

Yes, the main does appear to be a doosey. The boards I am not worried about. They actually make sense for tidal water sailing for the reasons the previous owner wrote. To me, it seems a set of shorter, angled to the front boards that would at least make the pretense of kicking up if you touch a sandbar are a good option. I don't plan on hitting a sandbar at full speed, btw. New set of boards I will order some day.

The mast stepper is the new one that came out for the Getaway, Dan. Catalog states that with mods that it will work with the Tiger. I am supposing it will work for the FX, the Tiger's little cousin, and its rotating mast. I guess I will find out... I am not against stepping the mast by hand. I took it off the stand other day, it's not terribly hard to work with. (I took it off because we got six inches of snow and the diamond wires looked they were going to take the burden of a snow-covered tarp!)

Reason for wanting the mast stepper is that I am going to be sneaking off from work to the lakes and I want as fast a setup and takedown as possible. If you get only four hours in an afternoon to sail, spending 2 setting up and breaking down stinks.


Last edited by JJ on Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:43 pm 
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Also...

I already got a can of Sail Kote from McLube for the sail.

I picked up Rick White's book on the three W's at the library. He talks about rake and settings as related to water, wind, and weight. Still wading through that. Plus, Phil Berman's book is better on this subject than I thought initially.

Thanks for Bob Curry's page, btw.

Quote:
Fact or fiction, but I was told that is when the luff of the sail and the bend of the mast are a match that is the result you'll get.


Elaborate?

Berman recommends getting the batten tension, outhaul, and downhaul set while on the beach by leaning the boat over and looking at the sail with it parallel to the ground. The pocket of the sail being, IIRC, about 1/3 way from the mast. Finer tuning comes with the cunningham, mast rotation on the boat. And the spreader and diamond wire tension are adjusted according to conditions before you leave the beach... I GUESS!

Like I said, I am just trying to figure out who's on first right now. I like Rick's three W thing but have only skimmed it so far.

I must say, I like this boat. It's addicting. I enjoy looking out the backdoor at it.


Last edited by JJ on Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:59 pm 
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Final note...

Rick talks about rudder setting as well.

The big issue for me is -- here come a BIG WORD! -- mnemonic.

Technically, a mnemonic is a memory aid. But what I mean, or have in mind, is just getting a grip on the tuning priorities. Something similar to what J said he was working with in the first post of this thread.

So, do the batten, rudder, outhaul, initial downhaul first. Then second, work on...? If this is the best approach... which it may not be.

Going to take some time to look through the N17 notes...

Right now, I am having registration and titling problems too. Ain't it fun.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:31 pm 
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Location: Northfield Minnesota
You will be changing downhaul frequently. You don't want any downhaul on when the chute is up as it puts wierd pressure on the mast. For me its also the first thing I go for to depower, then rotator, then traveler, then boards.

I keep my outhaul tight. Pretty much set and forget.

Biggest thing for me was getting the pre-bend in the mast set up semi properly.

My boat was a salt water boat to. Getting the threaded adjusters for the spreader rake loose was a bit of a chore. FYI Be gentle, or be prepared to order a new set if yours are as corroded as mine were.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:00 am 
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Posts: 215
Location: Seattle, Washington
Although not on my FX One, i have broken loose alot of those threaded adjusters on the spreaders. Having a small torch handy and heating the aluminum barrel part will slowly loosen those up.

Almost fo sure you will be retaping and possibly dying the two parts after you get them apart.

If i recall thet are # 5 pitch metric.

Remember to put antisize on it when you put it back together.

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Hobie Tiger
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