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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:53 pm 
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Location: Northfield Minnesota
Yep, I ran a tap through the collar, and a die down the bolt, and same thing, anti siezed it when I put it back together.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:32 pm 
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What brand of anti-seize lub do you use?

Most of the my not-often-used mast bolts, etc are under a mountain of sail tape. Sail tape is good stuff. I picked up a roll and a tube of Permatex anti-seize but not so sure about the Permatex. Got anything better?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:04 am 
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I think that's actually the same brand I've got on the shelf. Anti seize is some pretty basic stuff, essentially grease and crushed glass.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:17 pm 
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Location: Seattle, Washington
There are different types of anti seize compounds.
You may want to select the nickle based one, it is for use with stainless.
The ones that are copper based shouldn't be used on aluminum or stainless parts.

This is from,
http://www.meyerplastics.com/adhesives_seal_tape/anti-seize_comp_sht.htm

Available Products:

Loctite Anti-Seize Compounds
C5-A® – exclusive copper-based formula
Silver Grade – heavy-duty, petroleum-based lubricant compound
Nickel – copper-free anti-seize for stainless steel
Heavy Duty – metal-free with excellent lubricity for all metals
Moly Paste – very low friction compound lubricates press fits
Marine Grade – protects assemblies exposed directly to fresh/salt water
Graphite-50 – electrically conductive, non-metallic compound
Moly-50 – general-purpose, thread lubricant
Zinc – protects aluminum and ferrous surfaces from seizure
Food Grade – prevents seizure and friction in stainless steel
N-1000 – high purity copper-based compound for long-term use
N-5000 – high purity nickel-based for power plant hardware
N-7000 – high purity, metal-free for power plant hardware
White Hi-Temp – general-purpose, non-metallic compound

The C5-A and the Silver are what you usually see on the shelf.
I have used the silver and nickle grades they have allways worked.

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Mike Hensel
Hobie Tiger
Wind in your sails, water in your shoes, great day!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:15 pm 
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Thanks Mike and Karl.

Mike, I ordered some of the Marine Grade Loctite.

Quote:
You will be changing downhaul frequently. You don't want any downhaul on when the chute is up as it puts weird pressure on the mast. For me its also the first thing I go for to depower, then rotator, then traveler, then boards.

I keep my outhaul tight. Pretty much set and forget.


I like the "set and forget" part! :)

There appear to be nine items on FX to adjust, which is a lot of adjusting. On mast, four, sail has three, and rudders have two.

Mast:
Spreader angle
Diamond wires
Rotator
Mast rake

Sail:
Battens
Outhaul
Downhaul

Rudders:
Toe-in
Load (tilt forward or aft)

I am just wondering about this "dialed in" thing. It appears to me that it is not a permanent thing as some recommend but something that changes quite a bit based on conditions.

Rick White in Catamaran Racing mentions his "3 W's" -- wind, waves, and weight. I think book does a really good job of summarizing how you set the mast, sail, and rudders based on conditions for the best sail shape after averaging the conditions of wind, wave, and weight.

I am not at the point where I have a definite opinion about settings (still reading), but I am impressed with Rick's method. (Of course, he is big into racing.)

Rick measures conditions on the day of the sail.

A full sail rates a 30 and a flat sail is a 10. A full sail is like 1st gear on a car with manual drive -- power but less speed. A flat sail is 5th gear -- speed but lower power.

There are gears in between. Each step is a 5.

I am out at the water: I have bad wave chop, that requires more power and rates a 30. Weight onboard is heavy and that requires power too and rates, say, a 25. If the wind is heavy, the sail can't be full or it will be overpowered. So sail rating is 10 for less power.

Average is 20 which is a medium full sail.

Then you "dial in" the mast and sail for medium full by setting the spreader, diamond wires, rake, and so on.

Some of settings should be changed. Some cannot be changed easily...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:01 am 
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I've got my mast/sail tuned pretty flat, but I'm right at minimum weight for the boat. Even with a really flat main, I'm start to depower pretty early. The FXone doesn't really need to be powered up too much for chop. With the hull shape being what it is, the boat likes to punch through rather than go up and over.

I set the spreader rake at what the tuning guide recomended. For me that's pretty far back, (2-3/4" comes to mind.)

I've got alot of diamond wire tension, I haven't found the max setting for this yet. Most H20 adjust diamond wire tension for conditions, I haven't gotten familiar enough with it to know exactly what it'll do.

Mast rake I do play with a little bit, if its blowing I rake it back more on the beach. Stand it up more in lighter air. I don't run extreme rake like the H16's do, my standard setting is the center hole of the bridle chain plate. (The FXone sailors really need to find a measuring point for rake with the halyard or trap line like all the other classes do.) Center hole on the chainplate allows for alot of variation between individual boats

My battens are usually just tight enough to take out the wrinkles, and so they pop. Meaning they kinda spring from one side to the next.

I just set my rudders up to the tuning guide. I've got a little bit of pull going to weather in most conditions. Going down wind its pretty nuetral, once in a while when things are getting crazy I get strong lee helm. I have no clue what causes this, or how to prevent it other than a death grip on the tiller when the wind is up and the whole boat is vibrating. I think the most important thing with the rudder system is to make sure the lock down works. Keep the cams greased, and the tension correct. Nothing worse than a rudder popping up, and the cam stays down. I also keep everything as tight as possible. Tight enough that you can still raise/lower the rudders easily, but with as little slop in the castings as possible. Makes a huge difference in sensitivity of the steering.


I play with the rotator a fair amount, you can get alot of variation in wind strength in one race even. The rotator is a pretty corse adjustment. If the wind is up, and I'm depowering with the mast rotation, you have to let it loose when the chute is up anyway.


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 Post subject: Mainsail tuning
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:04 pm 
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Location: SE PA/ Chesapeak Bay
Just curious ... have you guys measured where your max draft is in the mainsail ??? Most sailmakers I've talked to say the max draft should be in the 40-45% range for catamarans mainsails.

How do they recommend you tune the FX-One mainsail ????

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:25 pm 
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If there is any info on it I haven't seen it. I'm not even sure who makes the sail. I think its Ullman (sp), but I'm not sure of that. My sailmaker patch is partially covered with a patch where the previous owner went through the sail. I haven't even contemplated tuning the battens yet. I'd have to do that tricky measuring idea of Matt's that he had in the Hotline a few years ago.

I was pretty content with being able to max the mainsheet, max the down haul, and the max rotator on beach and be able to get the sail board flat. I mean just silly flat. Then, like a goof, I changed my setup.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:19 am 
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Location: SE PA/ Chesapeak Bay
Karl,

Before I change anything I would measure my set-up for "Max Draft". In fact I would measure the draft w/ specific mast rotation(angle?), down haul(guage on the mast) and mainsheet settings. (for the mainsheet you may need to use the distance between the boom/traverler or mark the mainsheet line ... both?) Make up a chart and fill it in .... some "speedruns" using a GPS w/ the boat set-up at the specific settings and various windspeeds would also help fill in your "chart".

Then when you make changes you'll be able to determine yes/no, good/bad ....

Is Matts Method of measurement different from the method used in Phil Berman's H18 Tuning Quide or "Welcome to A-Fleet"? ..... I didn't see that article so I have no idea what Matt's method is.

It just occured to me that you'll be using the same methods that are used to test new airplanes by test pilots/engineers and develope a "performance envelope" chart .... it'll take time, but the information gathered would be very useful ....

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:22 pm 
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Location: Clinton Lake Kansas
From my (very) limited experience racing the 20, with mylar main sail, for two years I'll make these comments.

The relaxed or static, if you will, draft of a mylar main is preset when it is built. Other than changing the top few battens to let air spill off in gusts (more pronounced on a square top, such as FX One or Tiger) the battens don't have a large, if any, affect on the draft of the sail. Battens are set snug and that's it.

The huge advantage to altering shape on the European boats is 10:1 main purchase (vs. 7:1 Hobie 20) and 16:1 cunningham (vs. 8:1 Hobie 20).

Playing the downhaul on the 20 upwind is almost a loosing battle. I'm convinced it doesn't make an appreciable difference and IMO the 20 sails very similar to an 18 upwind, other than the fact you have finer adjustment of diamond tension. You'll still use the rotation and then traveler to settle the boat in bigger winds.

With 10:1 and 16:1 the story is different. Karl, you need to grow a third arm or throw on a jib and a 100 pound crew. :)

My 0.45 cents (flame suit on)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:28 pm 
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The main is 8:1, which I think is adequate and it works on the Tiger, although most are switching to a 10:1 setup. I think it would be overkill on the FXone, the main is so much smaller.

16:1 for the downhaul would be sweet, with an 8:1 you gotta really yank on that line. I'd like to copy the Kruger's 16:1 setup with the Spinlocks for the down haul. That is a slick setup. I don't play the downhaul constantly, like I would if I were crewing, like you said just don't have enough hands.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:23 pm 
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oh-tay... taking two steps back from the Mast Stepper III...

Which modifications for the Tiger, 17, or 20, quote the catalog?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:30 pm 
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Well, I am cussing a bit now...because I loosened the barrel adjuster on one spreader arm to put anti-seize on it and noticed some salt water etching. Then went to the other side and that sucker was locked up good.

So, I got out the heat gun -- as per Mike's recommendation -- and it wouldn't loosen. Should have. But didn't. So, I went for broke and... I broke it. Sheared off the bolt inside the barrel. No damage to rest of the setup.

At least it's February.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:50 pm 
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Thanks for responses on tuning. I do have questions/thoughts but too occupied with other probs at the moment...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:01 pm 
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...btw, I do defend my intended use of the mast stepper with the FX!

I am still not convinced that there is any one best way to raise a mast. Either after doing it myself or reading the posts here about raising a mast.

I was disappointed when I took the adapter from the stepper kit and plopped it down on the mast and it is does NOT fit the shape of the mast! (The adapter is basically one half of a crosscut section of the mast.)

I had assumed that the adapter was generic enough in shape to fit several boats' masts but apparently it is only set to conform to the shape of the Getaway mast??!!! Groan!

The Stepper III is actually pretty well conceived and well put together. A small "slug" fits into the mast track and is pulled to the top of the mast by the halyard and the adapter, which has a flange that fits in the mast track at the bottom, keep the mast from flopping around when raised. All are connected together by ropes to the gin pole.

Only two problems are this issue of the adapter being too small/wrong shape and, of course, the diamond wires in the way...


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