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 Post subject: Returning H14 Racer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:53 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Charleston, S.C.
I'm returning to Hobie 14 after almost 40 years and recall the days when we had 100+ boats for national events. I have lots of questions, some of which might seem dumb but remember, I've been gone a LONG time.

I've got an old 1982 H14 to fix up for racing. Hulls are in great shape, no soft spots or jelcoat cracks, but shrouds are shot.

I was reading somewhere that some H14's were made with the shrouds directly connected to pontoons in H16 style. Is this still being done? Is it race legal? Did it work out? Could older boats retrofit and did they? Lots of questions on that one.

The mast is solid and straight, but no 'comp tip'. Must I have a 'comp tip' to compete?

How long have the 6-batten sails been around? Can I assume that serious competitors use the 6-batten sail? I have the old 5-batten sail.

Is it beneficial to add the dolphin striker for competition? It did not exist when I raced as a teenager. Does it enhance performance or can it be raced OK without?

What do people do for vangs these days? We used a detachable vang hooked up to either the port or stbd forward pylon, and switched on jibes. Still the same?

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Rick Whitehurst
H14 #2800
richardw@knology.net


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 Post subject: Re: Returning H14 Racer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4611
Location: Detroit, MI
Welcome back, Rick!

Rick Whitehurst wrote:
I was reading somewhere that some H14's were made with the shrouds directly connected to pontoons in H16 style. Is this still being done? Is it race legal? Did it work out? Could older boats retrofit and did they? Lots of questions on that one.

It's only legal for boats made after 2006, and only as supplied by Hobie Cat (Ref. IHCA Hobie 14 Class Rule 4.1). The hulls are internally reinforced to accept the loads from the shrouds.

Rick Whitehurst wrote:
The mast is solid and straight, but no 'comp tip'. Must I have a 'comp tip' to compete?

Yes, if you want to race in an HCA sanctioned event. Technically, even if you race handicap since handicaps are based on "class legal" boats. However, most organizers of handicap events look the other way when it comes to Comptips. You will definitely need it if you plan on racing in the North Americans next year in Ocean Springs, MS.

Rick Whitehurst wrote:
How long have the 6-batten sails been around? Can I assume that serious competitors use the 6-batten sail? I have the old 5-batten sail.

The 6-batten sails have been around for 25 years. 5-batten sails aren't competitive - mostly because they're old.

Rick Whitehurst wrote:
Is it beneficial to add the dolphin striker for competition? It did not exist when I raced as a teenager. Does it enhance performance or can it be raced OK without?

The 14 now allows a trapeze and if you're planning to trapeze, you need a dolphin striker. A broken boat is slow.

Rick Whitehurst wrote:
What do people do for vangs these days? We used a detachable vang hooked up to either the port or stbd forward pylon, and switched on jibes. Still the same?

People don't use vangs, per se - at least not like the old days. Some use a bungee cord w/ a hook as a preventer, but it really doesn't hold the boom down like a vang. We've found that the 14 likes to be sailed almost dead downwind. Only when it's blowing really hard w/big waves does it pay to tack downwind.

If you go to the HCA website (http://www.hca-na.org) and go to the "Latest News" section, you'll see a few pictures of this years NAs, just completed last weekend in Toronto. Go here and there are photos from last year (scroll down for the individual days).
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Returning H14 Racer
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:53 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Charleston, S.C.
Good stuff, Matt. Thanks.

Didn't see any pontoon attachments in photos, so I will assume it's not important.

Forgot to ask about shroud lengths. Is stock OK without needing an additional forestay adjuster? I often needed an additional 7 hole, or a 10 hole instead.

The 5-batten sail I have is in nearly mint condition, and dolphin striker it is then.

No vang seems weird. I guess it's not really a vang. Some of the best rides I had were broad reaches, beyond the point where a traveller could take twist out of leech. A 4:1 vang from boom attachment to the fwd pylon did a good job and was much faster than without. It was a pain, like having 2 mainsheets, and more risky in high winds. I still can't see being without. I was able to haul ass and point 'lower' on downwinds in the heavy stuff.

Looks like much of the website content from last year's NA's is gone.

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Rick Whitehurst
H14 #2800
richardw@knology.net


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 Post subject: Re: Returning H14 Racer
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4611
Location: Detroit, MI
I'm heavier than most of the guys racing (I think I spot Dan Borg about 50 lbs), so my mast is more upright than theirs.

I just use a 1/4 bow shackle at the top of my forestay adjuster to get the proper rake. Less windage than a whole other adjuster.

Like I said, we rarely do reaches anymore, so the vang is not an issue. The bungee is only used in lighter air.

Try this link to last year's NAs - http://picasaweb.google.com/wtw1970

Go to the Thursday / Friday / Saturday / Sunday photos.


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 Post subject: Re: Returning H14 Racer
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 9:57 am
Posts: 1604
Location: Clear Lake Iowa
Where are you from Rick?


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 Post subject: Re: Returning H14 Racer
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:53 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Charleston, S.C.
Charleston, S.C. I just updated my profile. No Hobie action in this area.
Family owned dealership in Pensacola, FL in 70's and 80's.
Currently race Sunfish, experienced in H14 (9th@1971 Nationals), H16, 420, 470, Flying Scot, others.

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Rick Whitehurst
H14 #2800
richardw@knology.net


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 Post subject: Re: Returning H14 Racer
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:32 am
Posts: 15
I believe the "comp" in comp-tip is short for "composite", as in 'glass Vs aluminium, and not "competition", but what do I know - I'm a newbie - but having fun with our new to us 14 soon to be 14T!


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 Post subject: Re: Returning H14 Racer
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:46 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 12:44 pm
Posts: 9024
Location: Oceanside, California
gnjpowell wrote:
I believe the "comp" in comp-tip is short for "composite", as in 'glass Vs aluminium, and not "competition"


Correct!

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Matt Miller
Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Hobie Cat USA


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 Post subject: Re: Returning H14 Racer
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 9:57 am
Posts: 1604
Location: Clear Lake Iowa
Don't do it man! Don't make it a turbo! Its better in it natural state, the way it was meant to be. I used to do the Turbo thing too, but then I practiced and learned to turn the boat and the Uni rig is just as fast and points higher without having to sit on the friggin' jib blocks. DON"T DO IT!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Returning H14 Racer
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:32 am
Posts: 15
In response to "don't upgrade to 14T" - we sail on a small lake (about 1x1 mile) in usually light and changeable winds and the jib really seems to help the boat perform much better Vs without and also to come-about far more easily, at least in my most very modest and humble experience so far. We have the jib partially rigged and just hold onto the halyard by hand for now, at least untill the tracks & blocks get installed...... CHEERS! -glen


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 Post subject: Re: Returning H14 Racer
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 9:57 am
Posts: 1604
Location: Clear Lake Iowa
Well, okay. My lake isn't terribly larger than that and we had the 14 champs there a couple times a few years ago.

I liken the Hobie 14 to the Long Boards of years ago the old guy surfers used/use. There is a zen to the H14 and its not there with the turbo rig. You'll see what I mean the longer you sail the boat.


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 Post subject: Re: Returning H14 Racer
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4611
Location: Detroit, MI
xanderwess wrote:
[snip] . . . without having to sit on the friggin' jib blocks. DON"T DO IT!!!!

I agree with him there - the jib blocks are right where you need to sit in lighter air for the boat to be properly balanced. A literal pain in the . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Returning H14 Racer
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:32 am
Posts: 15
Well, I had already ordered the pahts and now they are installed. Installing those SS rivets was a real challenge with only hand rivet tools. It's really nice now not having to hold the jib sheet by hand! Made another mod this weekend, we added two shorter bridle cables to the front and attached the jib to it Vs at the standard 14 bridle. This lowered the jib about 1.5-2.0 feet. It appears to work better now and the jib sheets don't hand up on the main halyard cleat on the front of the mast every time we come about...... Cheers! -glen


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 Post subject: Re: Returning H14 Racer
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:11 pm
Posts: 4611
Location: Detroit, MI
gnjpowell wrote:
. . snip . . This lowered the jib about 1.5-2.0 feet.


Realize that by shortening the bridles, you have drastically increased the sideways force on the bows.

The official 14 Turbo bridle length is 3' 10". I wouldn't go any shorter than that or you run the risk of breaking your boat.


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 Post subject: Re: Returning H14 Racer
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:32 am
Posts: 15
Thanks! I guess I was not very clear.... at all... This is a regular 14 with a jib added. It still has the stock 14 non-Turbo front stay and bridle. I use a clip-on jib, not the Turbo's furler setup. What I did here is add a second bridle that is about the same or possibly exactly the same as the 14Turbo bridle and attach the bottom of the jib to it Vs attaching the jib to the stock 14 non-Turbo bridle, which is up way too high. My thought is that this should place the jib at about the same height as intended by the designers and it stop the sheets hanging up on the main halyard cleat all the time. It is possible the cables I am using for the second bridle for the jib may well be 14Turbo cables, I will have to measure them and report back. If there is interest I will try to get pics. I picked this boat up at the side of the road, literally, it needed a sail, and am strying to sort it all out. The jib and the whole boat are working great now and my kids and family are having a blast sailing this boat! Cheers! -glen


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